Going to be Gone for a While

b/Other publicado por u/pimathbrainiac December 09, 2014, 04:04:18 AM

Going to be Gone for a While

Let me tell you this upfront: I can't deal with drama, and I have to deal with a lot of it between home and school. If I stack what is happening online with that, it's too much.

From the beginning: a while ago, DJ and I began discussing the idea of a new site focusing on the unfocused in the community, as well as a broader topic of programming and hardware. The idea spawned out of a multitude of things (and VVVVVV was not one of them

).

Fast forward to November: it becomes official. A team of DJ, Street, aeTIos, Juju, and myself is put together to put this site into action. This became known as CodeWalrus. We thought it would be a good thing for the community. Apparently, we were wrong.

The opinions and statements in this post are my own, and do not reflect CodeWalrus or the admins thereof in any way shape or form. Also if I mention your name here and you would like to say something about it, please do so in the comments below. I am going to be very blunt and not care about if what I say ruins an image.

Here goes:
We were supposed to be in a closed beta until Jan 1st, but a plugin misconfiguration caused allowed for members to sign up in other ways. That started the mess that was today. Of the members who signed up was Kerm. He has now publicly based us on our IRC channel for being a blatant ripoff/attack on Omni. This is not the case. That is not part of this site's mission at all. I still do not hate Kerm. I think his skepticism was founded. I would still like an apology for the bashing and for it to stop at the very least.

I have talked to geekboy on the matter of the site. He is skeptical of our motives as well. I, once again, do not blame him. I ran an idea by him that if it went through, would have allowed for some cross-site communication. This email was written before the Kerm thingymabob, although sent after, unmodified.

transcipt of email

Quote
I was hinting at this thing earlier on IRC, and you know the truth
from DJ: there's a new site abrewin', with DJ, Juju, Street, aeTIos,
and myself at the helm. As I said in IRC, this is not an attack
against any sites or people, but DJ explained that, so you should know
that already.

Some facts about the site:
We have a closed-beta member base with 5/8 invited non-admin members
being active
Last month we had 963 posts
At the current time this month we have 484 posts
We have project threads from all 10 active members (including admins)
We have a featured project from a non-admin
We publicly announce the site on December 15th (and I ask for you not
to talk of this site or this email until then with anyone but us)
We open to public January 1st

So why do I say this? I needed to show you that we are for-real. Why?
Because I see an opportunity for an inter-site (meaning the new site,
Omni, and Cemetech) project that would be beneficial for all three
sites and the community as a whole: A Cross-Site Competition.

So you know "Project Periodical," right? My idea is that we post all
the projects from all three sites into the periodical (same format,
time-wise) starting with the January editions (Jan 14/15 and Jan
31/Feb 1). The links to the project threads on every site will be
listed in the periodical. If a project has an active thread on all
three sites, then it gets put in the running for the competition. At
the end of the year/start of the next year, a community poll will take
place (outside of all of the sites, on a Google Doc/Poll thing,
probably) determining the winners for each calculator type. As for
prizes, that can be worked out sometime later.

So the benefits are considerable: for starters, it encourages people
to post about and discuss their projects on all three sites, which
boosts site conversation and visibility. It also means that the sites
themselves would be more closely tied together, which means that the
community as a whole would be more closely tied together. In addition,
it provides a support structure where the entire community can be
supported without rivalry and detest.

So why are TI-Planet, HP Museum, etc. not on the list? This
competition idea is for the English-speaking community that has a
focus on TI (with secondary focus on HP and Casio).

So why is this email to you in particular? Well, you are on staff for
both Omni and Cemetech, and you already knew that the site existed. I
would like a yay/nay on the idea from you because if you back up the
idea, it will be considerably easier to get the other admins to hop on
board with the idea.

Regardless of what how you feel or your approval, I once again ask for
you not to talk of this site or this email until then with anyone but
us (meaning the new site admins) until the 15th (or earlier if we
publicly announce earlier).

So why is speed an issue? If you approve of the idea and would like to
move forward, we need a more thought out plan than an idea to present
to the site admins before the new year, so we need all the time we can
get.

I have talked this over with the new site admins and they approve of
this message.

--
Your Lobster-ific Walrus,
pimathbrainiac

Geekboy denied the idea due to a similar Omni/Cemetech POTY thing in the works. This is very reasonable.

I also talked to Eeems. He is also skeptical of our motives, but I have a clear understanding of how the Omni and Cemetech admins see the site from that convo. They see it as an attack on Omni. I understand why, and I will address this in a moment.

The concerns date back to things some of the CW admins and others have posted about on Omni complaining and sometimes bashing the Omni admins, and specifically, Eeems (The petition, etc.). I can, however quote DJ directly from a private convo: "i want all sites to thrive | and if possible cooperate" Though I do not have a direct quote from the others, I can assure you that that sentiment is true for them as well.

But all of this is too much for me. I am in the middle of a bunch of drama at home already, and I can't stack what has been happening online on top of this. In addition, I've seen the phrase "dug your grave" from multiple people from multiple sites. This has to stop. We need to coexist, because if we don't, the entire English speaking community tanks over one site and a misunderstanding about the purpose. I am leaving all three sites until there is cooperation and no hatred between the three. Be it January, or be it next December, I am done with the drama, and won't come back until it is resolved.

Needless to say, my contest entry is cancelled and Project Periodical is on hold. Goodbye.

Inicia sesión o crea una cuenta para dejar un comentario

u/Scipi December 09, 2014, 04:19:37 AM

Take the time away from things that you need to. I've always said the best way to fix drama was to get away from it for a while and let time fix the issue.

I think that once people get used to the site's existence and it's been around for a while, fears of it being an attack on Omni will prove to be unfounded.

u/Dream of Omnimaga December 09, 2014, 04:28:25 AM

SOrry to hear that you'll be gone for a while. I hope it's not permanent though because people love you here and on Omni and I'm sure Cemetech as well.

Also sorry about the drama. Hopefully people realize the mission behind CW, which is to provide stuff missing from the English community. Granted, it might sound like an attack towards Omni because it started in response to piling up incidents, but a lot of features CW got were not gonna get added on Omni anyway, so it provides something different. I also tried a lot to help Omni admins before. And the TI community used to thrive with 4 big sites running simultaneously (including Omni and Cemetech).

Besides, a lot of CW members still plan to cross-post their stuff elsewhere even after opening. I'll even do so myself as long as slander and libel don't happen.

~~However I thought geekboy was talking about the Ticalc.org POTY, I didn't know they were making their own thing.~~ -EDIT Nevermind: it's really ticalc.org POTY

PS: It's October 24, not November. November was when the site name was chosen and the board installed.

Anyway take your time. I hope your real life situation improves.

Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 04:33:36 AM by DJ Omnimaga

u/Duke "Tape" Eiyeron December 09, 2014, 05:11:28 AM

The violent reactions are suggesting to me that they won't understand or take a moment to understand. I'm afraid that's only the beggining and this could be more violent once the site is official... We you soon Pimath, and may the drama around vanish faster than it appeared.

u/Dream of Omnimaga December 09, 2014, 06:10:59 AM

Well, so far I know Runer112 didn't care much. He understood but he still thought the site was a bad idea no matter what. But of course, so far, everyone that disagreed with the site are staff on another site.

My only recommendation is to ignore the haters. If we really wanted to attack or try to kill Omni we wouldn't be offering to help them get members once we get active enough to gain actual members. Omni and Cemetech has their respective ways of doing things, same for CW, and CW has plans to help Omni (such as the post bot) if we get active enough to give visibility to another site, kinda like how Omni had Cemetech post notifications in its IRC channel for a while. The cross-site project of the year thing was also another idea since it would have been cross-posted on all three sites.

u/novenary December 09, 2014, 01:58:25 PM

Thing is, CW started more as a programming group aka a hangout for friends to drive projects together, we don't expect to grow into a community as big as omni anytime soon (though we're already more active than them lol).

u/Yuki December 09, 2014, 02:14:16 PM

Quote from: Streetwalrus on December 09, 2014, 01:58:25 PM
Thing is, CW started more as a programming group aka a hangout for friends to drive projects together, we don't expect to grow into a community as big as omni anytime soon (though we're already more active than them lol).

This. We don't intend it to replace Omni, but to complement it. And we want to make sure everyone understand it, especially site admins, else drama happens and nobody wants more drama than we already have.

u/Dream of Omnimaga December 09, 2014, 04:38:53 PM

Quote from: Streetwalrus on December 09, 2014, 01:58:25 PM
Thing is, CW started more as a programming group aka a hangout for friends to drive projects together, we don't expect to grow into a community as big as omni anytime soon (though we're already more active than them lol).

Well to be fair, before the petition and its results happened, CW was gonna have community news articles and tutorials as well. It switched to a programming team afterward because Omni admins and staff showed signs that they were willing to continue maintaining the site and open to some improvements. I would like to maybe promote certain outside community programs in news in the future, though, especially if they're remakes of my classics or big games like SSBO. Also while Omni as a whole is not a programming team, it still has a programming team called Coders of Tomorrow. It's just that Omni eventually elvolved into not just a programming team.

CW slogan could almost be "The Second Half, but Unnoficial Part of the Omnimaga Coders of Tomorrow Programming Team", since it features projects that Omni don't, but most people here are active on Omni (in some cases the most active members).

Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 04:49:21 PM by DJ Omnimaga

u/Runer112 December 10, 2014, 05:25:26 PM

Hello. Just stopping by to provide my alternate viewpoint. The staff of Omnimaga might make some official statements in the future, but I wanted to make my own. Also, sorry if this is sort of in the wrong thread, but it seemed to be heading in this direction.

I don't like this idea because it splits the community, and over something that I personally think has been blown stupidly out of proportions. I'm guessing some of you guys won't be active as much on Omnimaga, either due to dissent or not desiring to use two separate yet very similar sites. And and a number of users on Omnimaga won't be active here for the same reasons, and additionally some for not realizing this site exists. The community will continue in this somewhat split state either ad infinitum or until one site dies. None of that seems desirable, as we can already see with concrete examples like pimathbrainiac not wanting to be around while this continues. Sorry to see you go, pimathbrainiac. I hope things get sorted out on our end and on your end so you can return soon. I'd hate to lose one of the best Axe coders for too long. I'd hate to lose any of the rest of, too, which I'm hoping can be avoided.

I'm somewhat ignorant of any issues you guys have had with Omnimaga, but I believe that most issues can be solved civilly if all parties involved are willing. If that's not the case here due to grudges held on either side, then all I can say is that I'm disappointed that any grudge-holders would rather gamble with the strength of the community than relinquish them. (I'm not just talking to you guys; I'm well aware that Eeems and potentially other Omnimaga staff are preventing positive progress, and have been trying to get them to loosen up on their position)

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on December 09, 2014, 06:10:59 AM
Well, so far I know Runer112 didn't care much. He understood but he still thought the site was a bad idea no matter what. But of course, so far, everyone that disagreed with the site are staff on another site.

If being able to move, edit, and delete posts as a moderator makes me "staff," then yes, I'm staff. I can't honestly say that has nothing to do with my position, as it may subconsciously, but I consciously identify as an external party in this situation. And I resent that you'd say I don't care much. Just because I don't agree with your position, doesn't mean I don't care. I've spent the last hour or so carefully writing this essay of a post because I care a lot about saving friendships and promoting a stronger unified community. And the best way I can see to achieve that is for Omnimaga staff and you guys to listen to and respect each other and to (re)join forces, which just happens to mean probably not moving forward with this site. I'd love to see it if you could continue to put the efforts you've put into building this site into improving Omnimaga.

Edit note: Sorry if this sounds overly dramatized or accusing you of being anti-Omnimaga. I think most of you aren't, as suggested by Eiyeron's post below, but I felt I needed to write parts of it as if the reader is because I feel they're important to try to get through to.

Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 06:22:44 PM by Runer112

u/Duke "Tape" Eiyeron December 10, 2014, 05:43:54 PM

Actually, I have nothing against Omnimaga. I'm maybe more active here only because there is less people I don't know. I don't really like anymore to get in a topic going to just say "this is great!". I'm still on Omni, getting back active there again, I have to work on some of my problems unrealted to you, Omni or CW.

u/Scipi December 10, 2014, 06:56:11 PM

Well, in my case I've already been inactive on Omni for some time. Long before recent drama started to occur, so my activity there isn't really affected by CW. Nor is my opinion of Omni changed, I still hold it in high regards.

From what I understand, CW isn't supposed to be a site like Omni or Cemetech, but rather a site focusing on topics the other two don't really focus on too much. For instance, projects that are remarkable, but for some reason or another just haven't generated enough interest or are overlooked in some fashion. Another example might be topics outside, but relating to the hobby, such as computer programming. I've already seen evidence of this, the recent Ludum Dare thread I posted here has already gained more interest than any of my other computer projects I posted on Omni. As far as the drama on Omni goes, CW predates that and the idea behind it isn't related.

There is also the possibility CW will grow its own user base without detracting too much from Omni or Cemetech, which is what's likely to happen, imo. I don't think many people will jump ship over to CW when it opens, so I don't think it'll impact activity on the other sites too much. If anything, we'll probably see more crossposting and people being active on the site that happens to garner the most interest/feedback for their project.

u/Dream of Omnimaga December 10, 2014, 07:15:12 PM

Hi Runer112 and thank you for sharing your views. I apologize if I was mad yesterday afternoon via PM, it was because I was already fired up at some earlier comments that I felt that were outright libel. I think the issue is that you were less active on Omnimaga lately (life happens) so you have probably missed most of the happenings that could have led to the creation of this site.

As you say, the issues can be solved civilly, but it would have taken both parties to solve them and you can't really solve the issues if both sites have a totally different stance set in stone. For example, the Omnimaga issues that prevents the site from progressing and growing are issues that have been brought up by me and others for the last three year, so people cannot say that we didn't at least try. For example, hiring new staff to help them maintain the site and its activity (without necessarily giving them moderator powers) was one suggestion that was brought up multiple times by many people. Same for new project sub-forums. I and some others including yourself also voiced their concerns about moderation and the behavior of certain admins at one point or another.

Some of their policies recently were made clear publicly or privately (although perhaps too late because many members have troubles adapting, which brings up the transparency issue). Some policies also changed, such as what is allowed in #omnimaga and what's not (for example, BASIC vs ASM debates are now tolerated, even some comments are slightly controversial) and the admins can act (and as it turns out, behave) at their own discretion, and the staff hiring criterias (it was not stated publicly, but it appears that none of the existing active Omnimaga members meet them).

This is not to mention that some features will never see the day on Omnimaga because the admins have decided so.

So here comes this website. If neither Cemetech nor Omni pleases you enough to stay in the community, is it really that bad to start your own place with different policies and mentality? Sure, it will split the community and we all know some people would rather prefer that there is only 1 single site, but I personally would rather see an extra site to satisfy more people than a statu-quo where people are leaving the entire TI community. Not to mention many people cross-post their projects on all active sites. We have to face the reality and the fact that everyone have different preferences and personalities. Maybe in turn this website will do what Omni did when it re-opened in 2008 and attract a different userbase that might eventually take interest in Cemetech and Omni?

Currently, I felt that a different place was necessarily, though, and should be given a chance. All three sites have different policies and mentalities that makes all of them necessary at the moment and we cannot force regular users to endure what they don't like to the point where they get fed up and leave.

Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 07:21:31 PM by DJ Omnimaga