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TILP: beta-testing...

Started by Lionel Debroux, October 25, 2015, 04:30:17 pm

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DJ Omnimaga

I see. That could definitively become useful :)

Lionel Debroux

A bunch of changes since the previous build:
  • reduced some internal code duplication and exported yet more functions to users (under no promise of backwards compatibility);
  • communication fixes for MacOS X with especially the Nspire, by Adriweb;
  • changes and code-based documentation related to requesting information from DUSB TI-Z80, TI-68k and TI-eZ80 calculators. A significant number of previously undocumented parameters, some of which are useful, came to light;
  • other bugfixes and improvements;
  • rebuilt against a newer version of the external libarchive library, namely version 3.2.1, containing a bunch of security fixes.


This build is noteworthy in that it is probably the last beta build before the long overdue release of TILP II 1.18 :)
As such, and even if I know that very few people use TILP or its libraries, testing would be appreciated.

The only remaining item for the current development cycle is adding clock getting / setting support for the TI-eZ80 series, which was made possible by the DUSB PID documentation work from the past few weeks. Not a task for this week-end, though.

The usual links:
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TIEmu and TILP.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

DJ Omnimaga

Awesome Lionel. Something I am curious about is how the transfer speed compares to TI-Connect CE. TI-Connect was very slow, but TI-Connect CE improved things considerably, so I was curious about if TILP managed to push things even further. Also, can it do ROM dumps for the TI-82 Advanced and TI-84 Plus-T?

Lionel Debroux

QuoteAlso, can it do ROM dumps for the TI-82 Advanced and TI-84 Plus-T?

Nope: this would require exploiting these calculators, but the method to do so is not public :)
Having libticalcs use exploits for holes in the calculator's software is not an issue in itself, as shown by Benjamin Moody's ROM dumper for the 85 and old 82 models, or even the Nspire OS 1.x dumper, which leverages direct directory traversal.
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TIEmu and TILP.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

p2

I know this is not really about beta testing...
But it would be really great if there was an easier way to set up TiLp on different Linux distributions as it took me multiple hours to get it done the last time...  :ninja:
Btw will TiLp one day be availagle in the official download center (that GUI that makes it that much easier than manually doing it over terminal)? :)
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

Lionel Debroux

October 11, 2016, 03:42:57 pm #35 Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 03:47:31 pm by Lionel Debroux
QuoteBtw will TiLp one day be availagle in the official download center (that GUI that makes it that much easier than manually doing it over terminal)? :)

By now, TILP is packaged by at least Debian / Ubuntu / Mint / their many derivatives (alberthro), Arch (Jonimus et. al), Fedora (TC01) and OpenSUSE (Vogtinator). I might have forgotten one when writing this post. IOW, it is part of the official download center for the main end user distros :)

However, the fact is that the latest official release - which is packaged by distros, most of them do not package from the development sources - is nearly always hopelessly outdated. Even when there was a year +/- several months between releases, as occurred for TILP II 1.14-1.17, past the first few weeks after a release was cut, the version in the SCM (formerly SVN, nowadays Git) contained a bunch of new features and bugfixes made since the official release.
The changes in the upcoming TILP II 1.18 release train over the 1.17 release are by far larger than the changes between any two consecutive release trains in 1.13-1.17. Yes, I really should have made at least 2 releases since April 2013 :)

Compiling from source, which is easy with the install_tilp.sh script (especially nowadays that I went out of my way to provide copy-pastable lists of build dependencies for multiple distro families), is what I tend to tell users of distro packages when they experience some unwanted behaviour, unless I know that this won't change anything (e.g. because I didn't modify that particular area since then). This is common behaviour for open-source / free software projects, not just for libti*/gfm/tilp.
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TIEmu and TILP.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

p2

For some reasons I couldn't find it on Mint when I wanted to install TiLp...
Had to do it manually using the terminal but at least someone sent me a script that did SOME of the work for me (but still had to manually get like a thousand dependecies) xD
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

Lionel Debroux

QuoteHad to do it manually using the terminal but at least someone sent me a script

Yup, the script linked above.

Quotethat did SOME of the work for me

Attempting to detect the exact flavour and version of the Linux distro currently executing a script, and attempting to support the most relevant subset of distros is a significant pain and amount of work. Really :)

Quote(but still had to manually get like a thousand dependecies) xD

Yes, dozens of packages when counting the transitive dependencies. But at least, the script tells you which ones to download for the most popular distros ;)
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TIEmu and TILP.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

p2

yess it was a great help the script told me that  :thumbsup:
It was just like "oh god... not again... aaaahh" each time I got a new "YOU NEED THIS PACKAGE FIRST" message... xD

And as I experienced myself what a pain it is doing it for only one distro... I dont even want to imagine how much work it is creating a script that does all that automatically and for multiple distros >.< Big thanks for you guys putting so much work into that!!  :love:
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

Lionel Debroux

October 11, 2016, 04:26:27 pm #39 Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 04:28:14 pm by Lionel Debroux
QuoteI dont even want to imagine how much work it is creating a script that does all that automatically and for multiple distros

It's high indeed. The first step in the distro type + version detection automation was obtaining the relevant lists of packages, which I eventually did through Docker containers, so that I didn't have to install the whole distros in VMs. Attempting to auto-detect the distro would be the second step, but much work. I suppose I'd borrow from install scripts I saw over time, e.g. the install script for SDR stuff, but still.
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TIEmu and TILP.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

p2

I begin to understand...
People keep saying Linux sucks because it's so much work to install only a single program... (I did myself)
I finally begin to understand WHY many developers don't change something about it  9_9
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

Lionel Debroux

QuotePeople keep saying Linux sucks because it's so much work to install only a single program... (I did myself)

And yet, it's so much easier to install a single program from the C/C++ source code in Linux or MacOS X than it is in Windows, that it isn't funny :D
Yes, seriously. Downloading build dependencies on Windows is so much of a pain that in fact, Microsoft recently created its own project to do exactly that, after users requested for many years that Microsoft provide something as good as the Linux package managers (apt and friends), or homebrew (third-party) for MacOS X. I forgot about the name of Microsoft's project.

QuoteI finally begin to understand WHY many developers don't change something about it  9_9

Amount of free time for many developers, yeah... I've never been paid to work on libti*/gfm/tilp, though it's a fact that I bought only a small subset of my calculator collection by myself, especially because I picked up 15 calculators from Romain Liévin a little while after becoming the maintainer, and that TI paid for most of my trip to their office in Paris in 2011.
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TIEmu and TILP.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

p2

wait... you went to paris to visit some TI officials or something? O.o
THat sounds like an interesting story ;D

Did they love you or did they hate you for creating TiLp...?  <_<
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

Lionel Debroux

* yes, I went to TI's office in Paris once in 2011, and I met critor and Adriweb there (for the only time, so far) for a meeting with TI EdTech people, two of them being high-level executives. That was documented on TI-Planet at the time, IIRC, but probably in French only. On his side, Romain once went to TI EdTech's office in Dallas.
Amusingly, I had met Adriweb's father in a completely unrelated event, the year before.

* I didn't create TILP, Romain Liévin and Julien Blache did at the end of the 1990s, a decade before I became the maintainer :)

* TI is far from hating the work Romain, Julien, I and contributors (Benjamin Moody, Jonimus, etc.) did and still do on our free time :)
The TI EdTech stance is not to provide documentation about their "modern" (2004 and later) protocols and file formats, or even full documentation for their older protocols and file formats. So they're not trying to help the making of what we TI community dub "calculator linking software" (in HP parlance, it would be more like "connectivity kit") by providing information.
However, they're clearly not trying hard to hamper third-party efforts finding information by themselves (through reverse-engineering for interoperability purposes, which is perfectly legal in pretty much any country, all the more it's non-commercial as far as we're concerned) and providing programs for platforms both not supported (Linux, the BSDs) and supported (Windows, MacOS X) by TI EdTech, either.
They're even helping a bit, as a matter of fact: they gave calculators and cables to Romain in the past, which were invaluable to him for adding support for the 89T/84+ and Nspire USB protocols . They gave several calculators to me since 2011, the first one being the CX CAS, which enabled me to add Nspire CX / CM (CAS) color screenshot support in libticalcs several days later. They don't require NDAs, I never signed any form of NDA with TI (or anyone else, for that matter).
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TIEmu and TILP.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

p2

wow I'm really surprised as I only got negative news about TI like making it impossible to downgrade the calcs and stuff like that.
How comes they on he one hand support people like you but on the other hand try to lock out some of our stuff?
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

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