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The 2016 Yearly CW Project Award begins. UPDATE: Reuben Quest 3 won!

Started by DJ Omnimaga, January 09, 2017, 07:03:33 am

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Which of the project below is your favorite?

June: (84+CE) ICE Compiler v1.1
4 (17.4%)
July: (fx-CG10/20) Internet on Casio PRIZM
1 (4.3%)
August: (84+CE)  CEmu
3 (13%)
September: (84+CE) C SDK and Libraries
4 (17.4%)
October: (83+/84+) Reuben Quest 3
5 (21.7%)
November: (84+CE) gLib 3D Library
2 (8.7%)
December: (84+CE) Oiram CE
4 (17.4%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Voting closed: January 16, 2017, 07:03:33 am

p2

Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

DJ Omnimaga

A Walrii platformer would be great but like Oiram CE it would be a considerable amount of work. As for an RPG it's also a lot of work so inevitably, any RPG project involving :walrii: is probably not gonna be finished until the end of next year at best. :P

kotu

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Unicorn




??? ??? ??? ??? ???

DJ Omnimaga

I already use ICE but I'm still undecided about which project is my favorite XD.


Also @p2 there's a :walrii: in Oiram CE O.O

p2

wasnt that ment as some sort of secret hidden easteregg...? xD

still it's not mainly a walrus game
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

DJ Omnimaga


p2

Trying to make me vote for Oiram? xD

There was no gif of the walrii mode yet, or did I miss it? :ninja:
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

DJ Omnimaga


gbl08ma

Of all the projects that won the monthly project award, there's only one that doesn't target TI calculators, which is the Internet on Casio Prizm one. I'm not complaining but I couldn't help but find some humor in this, in the sense that project never even went beyond much of a "thought experiment" attached to a single-commit git repo, but it was so interesting and exciting that it still won the monthly award for July. The reason why it never progressed further, and now comes the sad part of the funny part, is that Juju's effort was hampered by yet another bricked Prizm - and because of the incessant bricking stories and other problems, other Prizm developers have pretty much lost interest in the platform, myself included.
In retrospective, I think this sad story perfectly sums up the Prizm development scene over the last couple of years.

As kind of an homage, and also because I don't have a TI-84+ or 84+CE and thus can't properly judge the other winners (and I think it would be unfair to decide solely based on forum posts, as the competition is quite tough), I guess I'll vote for the "TCP/IP on Prizm dream". It makes for a good "else case" for people who can't decide among the other ones :)

p2

you could still test the other ones in emulators. ignoring a bit of a flickering, the emulators work preetty well :)
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

DJ Omnimaga

@gbl08ma worse than this, there are rumors that a new Prizm with zero add-in support is coming out soon >.<

gbl08ma

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on January 13, 2017, 04:52:13 pm
@gbl08ma worse than this, there are rumors that a new Prizm with zero add-in support is coming out soon >.<


I guess people who want to be able to run custom software on their own calcs that is not Casio's slow-as-molasses basic, will just choose TI instead. I find TI's software to be way less user friendly, and the hardware specs on their non-Nspire lines are way worse, but if that's what it takes...
The Casio calculator community has always been much smaller than the one for TI calcs: there are fewer users and fewer projects. I find the Casio calcs to be much nicer to program than Z80-based TI ones (more memory, you can use C and even parts of C++ without issue...), and easier than Nspire ones (no need for calculator "jailbreaking"). But the set up and learning curve is way worse: you have to set up a SDK (or in the case of the Prizm, a "development environment" that basically revolves around some fork of libfxcg, or if you want to be 5 years in the past, Simon's hacked together stuff), figure out how to program in C (vs. using Basic on a TI calc which already gives decent performance), etc. In that aspect the classic TI calcs are easier - you don't even need a computer.
To sum this paragraph up, I find Casio and Nspire calcs to be easier to develop for if you already know how to code and have some experience around a command line, be it Linux or not. TI's non-Nspire are better to get random strangers into programming.

Such a move against 3rd-party software can alienate some customers, even those that would not care about calc games and such things. I remember that back in high school few people installed add-ins/games, and the people who did, often forgot about them - after all, if you have a smartphone and are already well trained in hiding it during class, what's the advantage? However, if at the time of choosing between two models/brands, word had spread that one of them didn't allow games or whatever, I can totally see people going for the one that supported them even if they ended up making zero use of that "feature" throughout their high school years - just because it seems appealing at the beginning.

Fortunately the "niche" of attracting young people to learn programming and introduce them to the Von Neumann and Havard architectures (i.e., basically learning how today's computers perform their magic) seems to have been more or less fulfilled by cheap SBCs like the raspi, or the desire to build yet another Android game. The hard task is getting those SBCs into the hands of people, or getting users to know that yes, they too can make apps, that it's not a superhuman-exclusive activity, that computers are not TV and allow for more than content consumption.
In other words, calcs getting more and more closed down is not the end of the world, except maybe if your main goal was to cheat in exams. But everyone, including calc makers, must keep in mind that some people will always find a way.

Oh my gosh this just turned into a huge rant...  :-[ but all of this highlights the importance of recognizing independent development and I think things like the CW project awards are a great way to do that.

DJ Omnimaga

Only a few hours left to vote, so hurry up! :)
Quote from: gbl08ma on January 13, 2017, 05:16:48 pm
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on January 13, 2017, 04:52:13 pm
@gbl08ma worse than this, there are rumors that a new Prizm with zero add-in support is coming out soon >.<


I guess people who want to be able to run custom software on their own calcs that is not Casio's slow-as-molasses basic, will just choose TI instead. I find TI's software to be way less user friendly, and the hardware specs on their non-Nspire lines are way worse, but if that's what it takes...
The Casio calculator community has always been much smaller than the one for TI calcs: there are fewer users and fewer projects. I find the Casio calcs to be much nicer to program than Z80-based TI ones (more memory, you can use C and even parts of C++ without issue...), and easier than Nspire ones (no need for calculator "jailbreaking"). But the set up and learning curve is way worse: you have to set up a SDK (or in the case of the Prizm, a "development environment" that basically revolves around some fork of libfxcg, or if you want to be 5 years in the past, Simon's hacked together stuff), figure out how to program in C (vs. using Basic on a TI calc which already gives decent performance), etc. In that aspect the classic TI calcs are easier - you don't even need a computer.
To sum this paragraph up, I find Casio and Nspire calcs to be easier to develop for if you already know how to code and have some experience around a command line, be it Linux or not. TI's non-Nspire are better to get random strangers into programming.

Such a move against 3rd-party software can alienate some customers, even those that would not care about calc games and such things. I remember that back in high school few people installed add-ins/games, and the people who did, often forgot about them - after all, if you have a smartphone and are already well trained in hiding it during class, what's the advantage? However, if at the time of choosing between two models/brands, word had spread that one of them didn't allow games or whatever, I can totally see people going for the one that supported them even if they ended up making zero use of that "feature" throughout their high school years - just because it seems appealing at the beginning.

Fortunately the "niche" of attracting young people to learn programming and introduce them to the Von Neumann and Havard architectures (i.e., basically learning how today's computers perform their magic) seems to have been more or less fulfilled by cheap SBCs like the raspi, or the desire to build yet another Android game. The hard task is getting those SBCs into the hands of people, or getting users to know that yes, they too can make apps, that it's not a superhuman-exclusive activity, that computers are not TV and allow for more than content consumption.
In other words, calcs getting more and more closed down is not the end of the world, except maybe if your main goal was to cheat in exams. But everyone, including calc makers, must keep in mind that some people will always find a way.

Oh my gosh this just turned into a huge rant...  :-[ but all of this highlights the importance of recognizing independent development and I think things like the CW project awards are a great way to do that.
Regarding the size of the Casio community, I would say that it's hard to judge whether it is smaller or bigger than the TI community or even by how much of a margin. I would say most of the time it has been much smaller, but in 2008 it was actually larger overall than the TI community in terms of productivity for a few months. The main issue with the Casio community is that the French side is even more cut off from the English side than in the TI community, because in France, the PRIZM never took off due to Casio calcs costing up to double the amount of money in France than they do worldwide, so as a result, all French Casio users use the fx-9750gII and to a lesser extent the fx-9860gII. The TI community had the same problem back in 2001-06, with most French and German people using TI-89/92+/v200 calculators while the rest of the world used the TI-82/83/83+/84+/SE. What doesn't help either is that many French people have troubles reading English and vice-versa.

My main issue with Casio development is that if you are a BASIC programmer, you are virtually forced to program directly on the calculator, because no reliable PC editor nor third-party emulation exists. In addition to that, Casio fx-CG10/20 BASIC has serious speed problems with drawing commands other than Locate. If you are a C programmer then you pretty much summed things up above: Basically Casio PRIZM C development is pretty much like Nspire C in terms of difficulty about setting up an environment, minus the jailbreaking process (although I fear the fx-CG50 will require jailbreaking). What the Casio community needs is a SDK just like the one MateoConLechuga created for the TI-84 Plus CE, as well as a library toolchain and a community emulator that can run both BASIC programs and add-ins, but would the demand be high enough?

Also @gbl08ma we might want to continue this discussion in the fx-CG50 topic now that we have one :P (I can't move your post there since it's older than the Casio topic and its OP is on the front page)


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