The shoutbox is currently out of service. Join us on Discord instead.
You can help CodeWalrus stay online by donating here.

Nintendo Switch console

Started by DJ Omnimaga, October 20, 2016, 02:19:37 am

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DJ Omnimaga

December 21, 2016, 05:50:12 am #30 Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 06:04:10 am by DJ Omnimaga
Although to be honest, since the Vita failed, I would like to see JRPG companies move their JRPG releases over to the Switch, since it can also be used as portable console. I am still disappointed at the hardware, though. I guess if this console fails then we'll just have to settle for this in a few years:


GalacticPirate

Are you serious ? I personnaly consider all people who ask for brute hardware force as non-realistic. What do you want ? a PS4 Pro but in a portable console ? Come on guys... --' You won't need all that power. See how the PS4/XB1 have all that power and run on [email protected] most of the time... Having 3 times the Wii U's power is already above what I expected for the Switch, and I'm only waiting for the official announcement from big N...

p2

heh... developing games for a calculator, not satisfied with hardware of portable console...  (-_(//));


I guess you simply have different expectations for devices that are built especially for gaming... ^^
Anyway war sucks. Just bring us your food instead of missiles  :P ~ DJ Omnimaga (11.10.2016 20:21:48)
if you cant get a jframe set up, draw stuff to it, and receive input, i can only imagine how horrible your game code is _._   ~ c4ooo (14.11.2016 22:44:07)
If they pull a Harambe on me tell my family I love them ~ u/Pwntear37d (AssangeWatch /r/)
make Walrii great again ~ DJ Omnimaga (28.11.2016 23:01:31)
God invented the pc, satan the smartphone I guess ~ p4nix (16.02.2017 22:51:49)

gameblabla

December 21, 2016, 04:27:05 pm #33 Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 04:36:07 pm by gameblabla
Quote from: STV on December 21, 2016, 01:30:49 pm
Are you serious ? I personnaly consider all people who ask for brute hardware force as non-realistic. What do you want ? a PS4 Pro but in a portable console ? Come on guys... --' You won't need all that power. See how the PS4/XB1 have all that power and run on [email protected] most of the time... Having 3 times the Wii U's power is already above what I expected for the Switch, and I'm only waiting for the official announcement from big N...

The problem is that the Switch will make it even more complicated for developers to make games for it.
Now, they have to handle two different GPU speed (dock or undocked), a 720p screen (most games will probably be stuck at 720p), the CPU, while powerful,
is still behind the Xbox One and its architecture is completely different, meaning devs who targeted the x86_64 will have to rethink their games.
Add to that it's going to have laughable battery life, no VR support, most likely crippled multimedia support, a closed-down environment
and you got yourself a complete failure.

Ever wondered why Bestheda showed off Skyrim on it and not their newer games ?
Because that's how powerful the Switch is : the Nvidia Shield TV (same hardware, better clock speed) is more powerful than Switch, for f***'s sake !

You know what the Switch reminds of ? The Virtual Boy.
For the Virtual boy, it was unclear if it was a portable device (it wasn't as it was hugely unpratical) or a home device. (also bad at it and very limited graphics)
Same for the Switch : it's unclear if it's a portable device (bad battery life, crippled media capability) or a home device. (also bad at it since a PS4/XBONE is more powerful than the Switch and prces are now dropping off for both devices)

DJ Omnimaga

How did you find out how long the battery life would be?

gameblabla

Ars Technica leaked the technical specs of the Nintendo Switch and it's not looking good...
The only thing that could have saved it is no more...
How Nintendo advertises it, very few people will fall into that scenario.
Add to that awful battery life, and we got a device that's for nobody.

Here's how i think it will happen :
Nintendo Switch gets released on March 2017 at 200$ dollars, selling from 2 to 3 millions the first month it launched.
It comes with the next Mario, some Wii U ports as well as some Ubisoft/Bestheda games for it.
However, gamers who own the device are quick to point out how disappointing the games look on an HDTV :
games are stuck at 720p and look awful on 1080p/4k Television.

In addition to that, games suffers from horrible frame-rate drops when the device is undocked.
They are also quick to realize the Switch has a bad battery and it's not practical as a portable device.
The media capabilities are limited and the environment is very closed, making very hard to watch movies easily.
Streaming on the device is disappointing and they are stuck with Netflix at 1080p, no 4K available.
Nintendo also crippled the internal browser so gamers can't play HTML5 games with sound.

While they do enjoy Nintendo games on the Switch, owners are less than pleased with third-party games.
And for a good reason : None of them had enough time to make a decent game for it.
There's also few indie games at launch as Nintendo are reluctant to send development devices to them.
Thus at launch, it suffers from a lack of games from third-parties.

However, thanks to a low price (200$), it still manages to sell well and Nintendo thinks it will end up being a long-term sucess.
... But Sony and Microsoft won't stay here doing nothing while watching seeing their market share go down.
The PS4 and Xbox One S were already inexpensive a few months ago (230$ and 250$) and on top of that, they got a huge library of games.
Both will answer by further dropping prices on both devices, while Microsoft will introduce this late year the even more powerful Xbox Scorpion.

People, when looking at what devices they should buy, will realise it's more interesting to buy a PS4 or Xbone than it is to buy a Switch.
On top of that, they already got all their friends on PS Live and Xbox Live and they won't be stuck with the crappy Miiverse which is disconnected from the web. (not to mention the games and 4k videos)
Thus, most of them end up buying the PS4 and Xbox One upon inspection.

A year later, Switch ends up selling much more slowly than anticipated and while the new Zelda helped selling more devices,
only hardcore fans ended up buying it and the Switch sales does not translate into third-party software sales.
AAA developers are already complaining about the lack of power to the device and how poorly the Switch version sold.
Youtube video comparaison often show the Switch version lacking behind even the PS4 or Xbox One, much like the Wii U.
Indie devs starts releasing games for it and they also complain about the tedious approval process, which has not changed much.

To some, Switch's future already becomes predicable.
Even after Nintendo releases games after games, this again does not translate into better third-party sales and Nintendo's strict policies do not help.
Nintendo, as stubborn as ever, refuses to change any of their policies.
2 years after launch, the Switch somehow became a living ghost and Nintendo heavily drops prices on them and bundling it with Wiisports 2 (lol) and a Mario game.
They also upgraded the specs a bit and they put a bigger battery in it.
This helped selling more devices but this brings Nintendo further in debt, because it does not make a profit on them.
The changes are also too little, too late and people still perceive it as a toy, not to mention Nintendo still cracks down on Youtube videos it does not approve.
Already, most big names Youtube stopped covering Nintendo games, as it became too troublesome to talk about it.

Meanwhile, Sony and Microsoft keeps improving their devices by making VR yet even more cheap than before and bringing it to the masses.

The switch's semi-failure pushed Nintendo to revise their plans about the new 3DS and they made the decision to expand support for it,
in a much-like Apple II situation.

5 years after the Switch, Switch sold less than expected : 25 millions rather than the 100 millions they expected it would sell.
On top of that, they lost tons of money and it sold very slowly.
At that point, it has several choices :
Make another device that is likely to fail, become a third-party developer, become a licensing company and stop both software and hardware dev or close the doors.

THE END

Do you think i made any mistakes ? Do you think it will happen ?
Or maybe Nintendo will become more open and start to realize their mistakes ?
Let me know in the comments below

DJ Omnimaga

Nice post even if I am not as pessimistic about the Switch, but shouldn't this go in the other thread? :P

gameblabla

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on December 21, 2016, 06:30:55 pm
Nice post even if I am not as pessimistic about the Switch, but shouldn't this go in the other thread? :P

Thanks DJ.
To be fair, it is kind of predictable as Nintendo is really stubborn and don't easily bow down to pressure
from outsiders.
They only do when their consoles fail but this might take 2 consoles failures before they realize they are in the wrong.
The Wii was the exception and in retroperctive, it had really few third-parties that were interesting.
I even dared to say this was when Nintendo started to become egocentric and would only design devices for themselves.
(The Wii U with the slow cpu as to not generate 'noise' or the 3D in the 3DS series that's not very popular)

GalacticPirate

OK, but first, 720p will never happen, since all Wii U games support at minimum [email protected] Next, VR is just a completely useless feature. And finally, I don't see the problem of a Switch being roughly on par with the XB1's power... Just see the PS4 Pro. Sony advertised an awesome 4K device while that's just crappy upscaled 1080p with an even more crappy framerate on certain games. If a real gamer wants to play a random third-party non-Nintendo game, they'll buy a gamer PC which will handle these games much better than XB/PS thingies will ever do. And if they wanna play good Nintendo titles they'll buy a Switch. How do youy explain the fact that EA (for ex.) still releases FIFA for XBOX360 and PS3 and not for Wii U while the Wii U is more powerful than these ? That's just 100% pure laziness.

DJ Omnimaga

December 21, 2016, 07:05:49 pm #39 Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 07:10:57 pm by DJ Omnimaga
On a side note, on the PS4 I get lag in Star Ocean 5, even though it's a port of a PS3 game with enhanced graphics. Just because a console has inferior specs doesn't mean the games will suffer. Sometimes, the developers are also to blame, especially with PC games getting ported to consoles or vice-versa, which often results into poor performance.

The main issue is that with a low-end console, third-party support will be minimal. On the other hand, with the Vita being almost dead and the 3DS most likely being replaced by the switch in long terms, this Nintendo console will most likely have the highest amount of ATLUS and Square-Enix games since the SNES era. No, we won't get Madden NFL 2018, no we won't get Call of Duty and no we won't get GTA6, but do Nintendo fans really want to buy a Nintendo console primarily to play those mass-produced third-party titles?


The reason why EA no longer releases Wii U sports games is because of poor sales, not performance. They took time to add gamepad interactivity in FIFA 13 and make it superior, but it sold so poorly that this was the last FIFA game for the Wii U. The Wii, which sold very well, had the same problem with Madden, NHL and NBA games, same with the Gamecube. The only reason why FIFA 15 was made for the Wii is because the Wii is so cheap that in third-world countries they can now afford it and play their national sport.

gameblabla

Quote from: STV on December 21, 2016, 06:59:52 pm
Just see the PS4 Pro. Sony advertised an awesome 4K device while that's just crappy upscaled 1080p with an even more crappy framerate on certain games.

Lol, it's not a crappy upscaler, thankfully. They doubled the number of gpu cores and its clock speed so it does try to render at true 4k.
Which is why it slowdowns on some games. True, Sony could have handle it better.
But even in games like FF15, the improvement is noticeable even on an 1080p TV.

QuoteAnd if they wanna play good Nintendo titles they'll buy a Switch

That's the issue : why even bother with the switch which is nothing special when they could just port their games over to PCs and PS4 ?
Of course, Nintendo fans will buy the switch for nintendo games but we have seen the results with the Wii U.

Quote from: STV on December 21, 2016, 06:59:52 pmHow do youy explain the fact that EA (for ex.) still releases FIFA for XBOX360 and PS3 and not for Wii U while the Wii U is more powerful than these ? That's just 100% pure laziness.

That's false STV... The CPU is very weak, even more so than the 360 and PS3.
Even Nintendo knew this at launch but they dismissed it because they wanted to keep the device as silent as possible.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story

True, they could have make use of GPGPU to compensate for the lack of power of the CPU.
(The GPU inside the Wii U is actually pretty decent. which is why Xenoblade looks great)
But really, they said the Wii U sales were abyssal.
So that's why they have not even bothered.

And Assasin's Creed was originally running much more slowly than it eventually did.
In the end, developing for the Wii U was too costly and Ubisoft dropped the Wii U. (Bestheda never developed a game for it lol)

QuoteHow did you find out how long the battery life would be?

It was from an unofficial source.
But i admit i do not know the truth. (It was i think 3 hours in gaming, high brightness, sound maximum)

DJ Omnimaga

Something different: I wonder what will be the overall difficulty of the first Nintendo Switch Mario game? Because during the DS and early Wii/3DS era, I noticed that Mario games suddenly became much easier. You could get all three big coins easily at first and you often ended up with 99 lives and never dropping under that. However, when Super Mario Galaxy 2 came out, they ramped up the difficulty considerably. In NSMBU and Super Mario 3D World, while you might end up with an high life count, I always find myself having to retry each level about 8 times in the later worlds sometimes. Also in NSMBU the items are much more sparse later in the game and the mini games are harder. I am definitively curious if that harder game trend will continue with the Switch. Back in the early days, Mario games were usually kinda challenging due to how rare 1-up shrooms were, although SMB3 was kinda easy after a while. For Mario 64 it's hard to tell because the camera was so bad.

Juju

The thing is, Nintendo does not aim for the biggest, fanciest hardware ever. They prefer to innovate and make up new ways of playing that works rather than cater to hardcore gamers and release basically the same console over and over. Nintendo sells to the family and casual gamers. Of course, fancier games that need fancier hardware will find what they want at Microsoft and Sony, but the thing to understand, you don't need that fancy stuff for quite a few cases and this is where Nintendo steps in. That's the force of Nintendo, simple games like Mario for the whole family, like PlayStation is for gamers and Microsoft is for, uh, researchers?

But still, from what I saw on Jimmy Fallon's late night show, the new Zelda looks pretty good. And I remember that list of developers who approved of the Switch that was twice bigger than the Wii U's, even some developers who don't normally develop on Nintendo consoles, like Bethseda, leading to speculation we'd probably have a remake of Skyrim? Well, that would be cool. Well, that's the sign for me the Switch will probably fare at least rather good if this much companies want to develop on it, but, as always, let's see when it'll be released.
Read Zarmina!
YUKI-CHAAAANNNN
In the beginning there was walrii. In the end there will be walrii. All hail our supreme leader :walrii: --Snektron



if you wanna throw money at me and/or CodeWalrus monthly it's here

DJ Omnimaga

The issue with the Xbox One and PS4 though is that they're pretty much overpriced gaming computers for the most part, since nowadays people rarely play FPSes and such games together in the same home. This is why the Xbox One could possibly be my final non-Nintendo console purchase. I mean, if you notice:

-Most PS3/PS4 JRPGs now come out on Steam, so the argument about PC lacking JRPGs is now invalid
-Most PS4/XB1 games are also available for PC, unless you absolutely want Forza, Gran Turismo and Halo.
-While an high end PC is twice as much as the latest Xbox One or PS4, you can upgrade it for cheaper and you just need one PC rather than two consoles to get the games you want.

Nintendo consoles, on the other hand, tend to always have unique stuff. Of course, that might just be my opinion, which changed over time. I used to think it's cheaper to buy both the PS3 and Xbox 360 rather than a PC for gaming, because they had way more unique titles than now, but with Steam around that no longer seems to the the case as much. So yeah, unless I cave in to peer pressure, I think instead of buying the PS5 and Xbox Scorpio that I might end up never using much, I'll settle for a brand new PC.

DJ Omnimaga

Walmart Canada lists the Switch at $400 CAD, which is roughly $300 USD at launch.

Powered by EzPortal