Unnamed 3DS homebrew

b/Consoles publicado por u/Hayleia May 12, 2016, 08:25:32 AM

Unnamed 3DS homebrew

First of all, I'm looking for names

I thought about stupid stuff like Inkr3Dible (Ink, 3D, bullshyt), BesprInkl3D (same kind of things but less stupid than incredible...) or just Ink3D (but it looks too much like "Ink 3D" and not enough like "Inked" in my opinion...), etc, but nothing smart. So share if you have ideas.

Anyway, some of you may have seen on IRC that I'm working on that kind of ink battle game on my 3DS.
Here's what the ink system looked like when it was working (no idea how to embed videos).

Now you noticed that it was only working on the ground, and that's because it was almost hardcoded to work on a cube based world (kind of like Minecraft) only for the top face of the cube. But I thought that a cube based world was boring so I had to start everything over and here's what I have right now.

Yay ! no walls and no ink anymore

Well ok, I just did that quickly but that's obviously only the beginning. Maybe I don't have walls but you notice that I have a ground model that is only the ground, it's no longer cubes

So yeah, that was me testing my multi-model code (because from what I've understood of citro3d, you can only have one "VBO" (of sorts) but you can display parts of it only, so if you want several "VBOs" you have to put them all together and know where they are so that's why it took some time to have that working, I had to do VBO management stuff (not hard but annoying to do right)).

So todo, re-do the ink system to work with the non-cube-based system (annoying too...) then I'll have problems because I have no idea how to do a multiplayer game on a 3DS

Also, if you have a 3DS that can't run homebrew and are interested in homebrew, you can Google "Plailect Guide". It should first explain what you can do in every situation you could be in (basically what firmware version you're on, what games you own, etc). Basically, if you're on 10.6 or under, you can do everything. On 10.7, you can do stuff but it's more annoying. On 11.0 I actually have no idea. And then follows a guide explaining how to mod your 3DS to get permanent homebrew access (and more -.-).

Thoughts ? People interested in testing (when there is actually something to test -.-) ? Etc.

Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 08:29:03 AM by Hayleia

Inicia sesión o crea una cuenta para dejar un comentario

u/gnmmarechal May 12, 2016, 08:42:52 AM

I'm willing to test it

The 3DS homebrew scene is so small though

I miss the PSP days.

u/alexgt May 12, 2016, 11:37:16 AM

A possible name could be: Splat

u/Duke "Tape" Eiyeron May 12, 2016, 11:59:01 AM

WOuld be interesting to gather common infos e get about Citra3D to make up for the lack of documentation. (Also maybe get in touch in a communication method faster than a forum)

u/Hayleia May 12, 2016, 12:24:42 PM

Quote from: gnmmarechal on May 12, 2016, 08:42:52 AM
I'm willing to test it
The 3DS homebrew scene is so small though
I miss the PSP days.

I wasn't "there" during the PSP days but yeah, I heard it was great.
And noted, I don't know when exactly there will be something worth testing but I'm glad I have people interested

Quote from: alexgt on May 12, 2016, 11:37:16 AM
A possible name could be: Splat

Yeah, I spent too much time trying to find play on words but it's true that something simple like that works too.

Quote from: Duke "Tape" Eiyeron on May 12, 2016, 11:59:01 AM
WOuld be interesting to gather common infos e get about Citra3D to make up for the lack of documentation. (Also maybe get in touch in a communication method faster than a forum)

True. It was kind of annoying to almost reverse-engineer examples to understand how to do more stuff. Like, all their examples only deal with 1 model, not 2, so you have to read all lines and all functions and arguments to find the one change that will allow you to use two models, and of course there is no documentation and there is no useful comment in headers either...
Well, that's obviously easier than reverse-engineering the 3DS to write the lib but still, why spend that much time working on a lib no one can use due to lack of documentation ?

u/Duke "Tape" Eiyeron May 12, 2016, 01:26:14 PM

Probalby because it's more or less developped among people whi use the IRC channel for 3ds dev so they probably expect people to talk to them about it?

Indeed, 3DS scene is small, but at least, it's not dead *glances at Nspire's*. Also, it's time for them to shine as now HB dev on this console should be quite easy with all the libs we're given (just have to figure on how stuff is working). Also, i have some things about DSP if you want to get your hands on this subject.

u/Dream of Omnimaga May 12, 2016, 07:11:33 PM

Wow I like the idea and the ink effects look cool too. Maybe you should throw glossy spheres instead of cubes to make it look more realistic? Also I can definitively see the influence from Splatoon. You could call it Ink3D, Splatya, or go with a paint ball-related name. Or maybe PocketSplat?

Also nice to see you again Hayleia and welcome here @gnmmarechal

. I remember the GBC scene was pretty big back then and various TI programmers also made GBC games. I never paid attention to the GBA scene, though. I remember the DS and PSP scenes were big but for some reasons the PSP scene lasted shorter it seems. I'm surprised that the 3DS scene is smaller. Maybe the console is harder to program or hack? The TI-Nspire was made harder and harder to hack over the years by TI and eventually people gave up so only a few Nspire developers remain.

u/gnmmarechal May 12, 2016, 07:29:59 PM

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on May 12, 2016, 07:11:33 PM
Wow I like the idea and the ink effects look cool too. Maybe you should throw glossy spheres instead of cubes to make it look more realistic? Also I can definitively see the influence from Splatoon. You could call it Ink3D, Splatya, or go with a paint ball-related name. Or maybe PocketSplat?

Also nice to see you again Hayleia and welcome here @gnmmarechal . I remember the GBC scene was pretty big back then and various TI programmers also made GBC games. I never paid attention to the GBA scene, though. I remember the DS and PSP scenes were big but for some reasons the PSP scene lasted shorter it seems. I'm surprised that the 3DS scene is smaller. Maybe the console is harder to program or hack? The TI-Nspire was made harder and harder to hack over the years by TI and eventually people gave up so only a few Nspire developers remain.

Thanks!

Hum, the PSP HB scene wasn't short, was it? It's still alive, though a mere shadow of what it once was. Infinity hybrid firmware 6.31/6.61 is a proof of it not being dead.

And the DS scene wasn't *that* big, most people only used the flashcarts to pirate games.

About the 3DS, well, yes. First, to hack the console, on a lot of system versions, you need a specific version of a game (or browserhax/menuhax, which only works up to 10.5 afaik). Also, we don't have ARM9 kernel access on firmwares above 9.2, and no ARM9 access means limited Homebrew. Though there is a lot of good stuff, the PSP was so much better. I guess it was easy to hack, as you'd run a signed eboot directly from the Memory Stick, which was a regular card that the PC read as a regular storage device.... 3DS data is encrypted, and it needs CFW (which needs ARM9 kernel access) to bypass signature checks.
Though you *can* downgrade from 11.0 to 10.7 via a hardmod and from 9.3-10.7 to 9.2 via HBL using Memchunkhax2.1/svchax. That would allow the user to get ARM9 access and either setup and EmuNAND or downgrade to 2.1, get the OTP, install Arm9LoaderHax and update on regular system NAND.
It's significantly harder than the PSP scene.

u/Hayleia May 12, 2016, 08:48:32 PM

Quote from: Duke "Tape" Eiyeron on May 12, 2016, 01:26:14 PM
Also, i have some things about DSP if you want to get your hands on this subject.

Right now, not really. I'd like to focus on gameplay first. But when things start working right I'd be glad to get help on that subject

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on May 12, 2016, 07:11:33 PM
Wow I like the idea and the ink effects look cool too. Maybe you should throw glossy spheres instead of cubes to make it look more realistic?

Yeah, everything here is just a PoC. I'll keep cubes for a while because I'm too lazy to change them but of course at some point it would be better to give the game some visual identity

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on May 12, 2016, 07:11:33 PM
Also I can definitively see the influence from Splatoon. You could call it Ink3D, Splatya, or go with a paint ball-related name. Or maybe PocketSplat?

Splatya doesn't sound bad but why "ya" ? I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just wondering if I'm missing a pun or if it's just because it sounds good

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on May 12, 2016, 07:11:33 PMI'm surprised that the 3DS scene is smaller. Maybe the console is harder to program or hack?

It is harder to hack indeed (I mean, I bought a PSP 1000 some weeks ago and the hack was literally "copy paste files on the memory stick, execute those two ones in the right order" -.-) as @gnmmarechal said (even though the part about downgrading to 2.1 to get OTP and arm9loaderhax isn't compulsory), but I think it's also because people have smartphones now. So not only homebrewers have a platform to work with without hacks but also people are less interested in handheld consoles. See how the PSP had multimedia functions and how the 3DS doesn't care

u/Duke "Tape" Eiyeron May 13, 2016, 07:33:00 AM

Am I the only one to have seen first relation to Tag, the Power of Paint before Splatoon?
Oh, by the way, LodePNG perfectly works on 3DS, if you need to load textures from PNG directly on your 3DS if you need it.

u/Hayleia May 13, 2016, 02:15:02 PM

Quote from: Duke "Tape" Eiyeron on May 13, 2016, 07:33:00 AM
Am I the only one to have seen first relation to Tag, the Power of Paint before Splatoon?

~~yes~~
I don't know, I never played that game so I can't make any relation to it.

Quote from: Duke "Tape" Eiyeron on May 13, 2016, 07:33:00 AM
Oh, by the way, LodePNG perfectly works on 3DS, if you need to load textures from PNG directly on your 3DS if you need it.

You can see me having problems with lodepng here

u/Dream of Omnimaga May 14, 2016, 02:49:56 AM

Quote from: gnmmarechal on May 12, 2016, 07:29:59 PM
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on May 12, 2016, 07:11:33 PM
Wow I like the idea and the ink effects look cool too. Maybe you should throw glossy spheres instead of cubes to make it look more realistic? Also I can definitively see the influence from Splatoon. You could call it Ink3D, Splatya, or go with a paint ball-related name. Or maybe PocketSplat?

Also nice to see you again Hayleia and welcome here @gnmmarechal . I remember the GBC scene was pretty big back then and various TI programmers also made GBC games. I never paid attention to the GBA scene, though. I remember the DS and PSP scenes were big but for some reasons the PSP scene lasted shorter it seems. I'm surprised that the 3DS scene is smaller. Maybe the console is harder to program or hack? The TI-Nspire was made harder and harder to hack over the years by TI and eventually people gave up so only a few Nspire developers remain.

Thanks!

Hum, the PSP HB scene wasn't short, was it? It's still alive, though a mere shadow of what it once was. Infinity hybrid firmware 6.31/6.61 is a proof of it not being dead.

And the DS scene wasn't *that* big, most people only used the flashcarts to pirate games.

About the 3DS, well, yes. First, to hack the console, on a lot of system versions, you need a specific version of a game (or browserhax/menuhax, which only works up to 10.5 afaik). Also, we don't have ARM9 kernel access on firmwares above 9.2, and no ARM9 access means limited Homebrew. Though there is a lot of good stuff, the PSP was so much better. I guess it was easy to hack, as you'd run a signed eboot directly from the Memory Stick, which was a regular card that the PC read as a regular storage device.... 3DS data is encrypted, and it needs CFW (which needs ARM9 kernel access) to bypass signature checks.
Though you *can* downgrade from 11.0 to 10.7 via a hardmod and from 9.3-10.7 to 9.2 via HBL using Memchunkhax2.1/svchax. That would allow the user to get ARM9 access and either setup and EmuNAND or downgrade to 2.1, get the OTP, install Arm9LoaderHax and update on regular system NAND.
It's significantly harder than the PSP scene.

Interesting, I always had the impression that the PSP scene was mostly active from 2005 to 2008. Back in 2008, calculator programming almost died completely and one calc site, Revsoft, even went as far as branching out towards PSP development and they were not the only site to have members who got interested. But then I didn't hear much about PSP programming anymore, other than emulators being made to run PS1 games and such stuff. I guess maybe I didn't pay attention to it enough after 2008.

Quote from: Hayleia on May 12, 2016, 08:48:32 PM
Quote from: Duke "Tape" Eiyeron on May 12, 2016, 01:26:14 PM
Also, i have some things about DSP if you want to get your hands on this subject.
Right now, not really. I'd like to focus on gameplay first. But when things start working right I'd be glad to get help on that subject

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on May 12, 2016, 07:11:33 PM
Wow I like the idea and the ink effects look cool too. Maybe you should throw glossy spheres instead of cubes to make it look more realistic?
Yeah, everything here is just a PoC. I'll keep cubes for a while because I'm too lazy to change them but of course at some point it would be better to give the game some visual identity

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on May 12, 2016, 07:11:33 PM
Also I can definitively see the influence from Splatoon. You could call it Ink3D, Splatya, or go with a paint ball-related name. Or maybe PocketSplat?
Splatya doesn't sound bad but why "ya" ? I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just wondering if I'm missing a pun or if it's just because it sounds good

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on May 12, 2016, 07:11:33 PMI'm surprised that the 3DS scene is smaller. Maybe the console is harder to program or hack?
It is harder to hack indeed (I mean, I bought a PSP 1000 some weeks ago and the hack was literally "copy paste files on the memory stick, execute those two ones in the right order" -.-) as @gnmmarechal said (even though the part about downgrading to 2.1 to get OTP and arm9loaderhax isn't compulsory), but I think it's also because people have smartphones now. So not only homebrewers have a platform to work with without hacks but also people are less interested in handheld consoles. See how the PSP had multimedia functions and how the 3DS doesn't care

As long as you don't shoot colored

that explodes into a pile of colored goo then it's fine

As for Splatya, it's basically Splatoon and Hayleia combined together. I didn't like Splateya and Splateia so I went with Splatya as idea

.

And I see. I guess it isn't surprising that the Nspire scene got downsized after 2013 or so. When a platform is hard to hack or program, then fewer developers bother.

u/Duke "Tape" Eiyeron May 15, 2016, 05:16:21 PM

Quote from: Duke "Tape" Eiyeron on May 13, 2016, 07:33:00 AM
Oh, by the way, LodePNG perfectly works on 3DS, if you need to load textures from PNG directly on your 3DS if you need it.

You can see me having problems with lodepng here

[/quote]

Funny, I have yet to face any issues with lodepng. I knew about the limited supported format set but not about such issues. Have you tried using them in a PC targeted program to see if it comes from it or somewhere else? (Also, you could send me such files so I could try them on WRPG and determine where they crash)

u/Hayleia May 16, 2016, 08:41:01 AM

Quote from: Duke "Tape" Eiyeron on May 15, 2016, 05:16:21 PM
Funny, I have yet to face any issues with lodepng. I knew about the limited supported format set but not about such issues. Have you tried using them in a PC targeted program to see if it comes from it or somewhere else? (Also, you could send me such files so I could try them on WRPG and determine where they crash)

I didn't try that. Since my textures already run through a script, I just modified the script to add a conversion to hex so I can just include that hex in my code

Good bye compression, but goodbye problems with libs too

If you want to try stuff, I guess you can try the pngs in the attached zip. But you don't have to waste your time if you don't want to, I'm fine using ridiculous hex, Xenoblade wastes 4GB so people won't complain about my game wasting 40MB instead of 1

u/Duke "Tape" Eiyeron May 16, 2016, 04:14:30 PM

Well, not everyone have 32GB microSD cards too :p Don't overdo it, okay? :p

i(m trying to figure what should I use to make correct perspective. I mean I have to figure the correct factor to avoid making my eyes cross from the whole thing. WIth 2D graphics, it's pretty hard on the eyes, actually.