Getting a Monochrome Nspire

b/Calculator Talk publicado por u/123outerme January 19, 2017, 11:40:57 PM

Getting a Monochrome Nspire

I'm gonna get an Nspire; a monochrome Nspire with Clickpad. It's monochrome, so it can emulate the 84+, and it comes with the 84+ keyboard as well. Here's where you should dump all of your favorite monochrome Nspire tools, etc. If Ndless is compatible, I'd be all for that, since I'd likely just be getting it just for programming purposes. Since my Nspire will be able to emulate the 84+ as well, drop some of your favorite monochrome Z80 stuff on me too (except stuff that uses undocumented opcodes, like MirageOS. I'll use Doors instead

). Just make sure you seperate the Nspire from the 84+ stuff.

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u/p2 January 20, 2017, 09:04:32 AM

Just use the same games and tools as on the 83+//84+

THere is a difference in speed tho, but the display of the nSphire is much more eye-friendly when using hte 84+ keyboard

for pure nsphire tools and games I sadly have no idea... never used that keyboard

u/gameblabla January 20, 2017, 09:10:41 AM

The B&W Nspire has a terrible screen : i would rather use my TI-89 over that !
As far raw speed goes, it's faster than the CX due to the faster memory.
However, most ndless games will convert from RGB565 to 4BPP so the speed benefit might not be obvious unless you overclock it with nover.
Also, make sure to stick with OS 3.1 as later OSes are useless for the B&W model and eats all the few memory available.

u/novenary January 20, 2017, 09:26:35 AM

If I were you I would just get an 84+SE, there is not point in the monochrome nspires at all, especially if you already have a CX.
It does have a faster memory bus (double the clock speed), however the CPU clocks are locked to 150MHz so there's a tradeoff in terms of performance. We've benchmarked it a bunch and in the end CPU overclocking gives you a much bigger performance boost, the memory bus is not a bottleneck.

u/p2 January 20, 2017, 02:32:36 PM

Quote from: gameblabla on January 20, 2017, 09:10:41 AM
The B&W Nspire has a terrible screen : i would rather use my TI-89 over that !

I dont have a 89 so I cant comment on that. But only comparing the 84+ to the nsphire84+, the nsphire display is much better for your eyes as it got sharper lines and is bigger too. ^^
but speed of some games might be off (iirc Phoenix was actually slower on the nsphire...?)

u/123outerme January 20, 2017, 05:43:00 PM

Quote from: Streetwalrus on January 20, 2017, 09:26:35 AM
If I were you I would just get an 84+SE, there is not point in the monochrome nspires at all, especially if you already have a CX.
It does have a faster memory bus (double the clock speed), however the CPU clocks are locked to 150MHz so there's a tradeoff in terms of performance. We've benchmarked it a bunch and in the end CPU overclocking gives you a much bigger performance boost, the memory bus is not a bottleneck.

I only have the CSE, and I found a deal, 70$ for the monochrome calc with the 84+ keyboard; basically $35 per OS/technology.

Quote from: gameblabla on January 20, 2017, 09:10:41 AM
The B&W Nspire has a terrible screen : i would rather use my TI-89 over that !
As far raw speed goes, it's faster than the CX due to the faster memory.
However, most ndless games will convert from RGB565 to 4BPP so the speed benefit might not be obvious unless you overclock it with nover.
Also, make sure to stick with OS 3.1 as later OSes are useless for the B&W model and eats all the few memory available.

So, basically any ndless game not solely dependant on color will be playable on monochrome models? And I've heard that OS 3.6 was better. Anyone care to explain the differences between the two, and why one of them is better?

u/gameblabla January 20, 2017, 05:52:49 PM

Quote from: 123outerme on January 20, 2017, 05:43:00 PM
So, basically any ndless game not solely dependant on color will be playable on monochrome models?

Yeah. In particular , any SDL games and most n2DLib games should be compatible with the B&W models.
Some are not compatible however, such as my Image Viewer as B&W owners are rare.
(i only got one complaint for PocketSNES about this and PocketSNES should work on B&W models)

QuoteAnd I've heard that OS 3.6 was better. Anyone care to explain the differences between the two, and why one of them is better?

The only good thing about OS 3.6 is that it fixes a bug with malloc leaking memory.
I think however that can be fixed on OS 3.1 by using a more recent boot1 with the upcoming ControlX. (i think, i'm not sure)
OS 3.6 plays LUA games faster too.
For everything else though, stay away because OS 3.6 takes more memory than OS 3.1 and it is the first that can't be stripped down.
Since the B&W model only has 16Mb of memory, you will be able to play less games. (Quake might not work on it)

u/novenary January 20, 2017, 06:00:02 PM

I thought the monochrome calcs had 32MB of flash?

u/123outerme January 20, 2017, 06:06:17 PM

Thanks for the responses.

Quote from: gameblabla on January 20, 2017, 05:52:49 PM
Quote from: 123outerme on January 20, 2017, 05:43:00 PM
So, basically any ndless game not solely dependant on color will be playable on monochrome models?
Yeah. In particular , any SDL games and most n2DLib games should be compatible with the B&W models.
Some are not compatible however, such as my Image Viewer as B&W owners are rare.
(i only got one complaint for PocketSNES about this and PocketSNES should work on B&W models)

Okay, thanks. I'm looking forward to finding some games

Quote from: gameblabla on January 20, 2017, 05:52:49 PM
QuoteAnd I've heard that OS 3.6 was better. Anyone care to explain the differences between the two, and why one of them is better?
The only good thing about OS 3.6 is that it fixes a bug with malloc leaking memory.
I think however that can be fixed on OS 3.1 by using a more recent boot1 with the upcoming ControlX. (i think, i'm not sure)
OS 3.6 plays LUA games faster too.
For everything else though, stay away because OS 3.6 takes more memory than OS 3.1 and it is the first that can't be stripped down.
Since the B&W model only has 16Mb of memory, you will be able to play less games. (Quake might not work on it)

So instead of downloading 3.6, I can download OS 3.1, replace the boot1 with ControlX (which I'm not sure but you said isn't released yet?) and have the same fix for less memory? Sounds good to me, if so. Also since Ndless can still hack 3.6, are you sure that I can't downgrade once I've installed Ndless?

Quote from: Streetwalrus on January 20, 2017, 06:00:02 PM
I thought the monochrome calcs had 32MB of flash?

No, according to Wikipedia (yeah, I know, it's Wikipedia), it only has 16 MB.

Also two more questions:
1. I get an 84+ emulator (basically) with this Nspire, so how does it save .8xps? Is it just in flash, like every other file I download, or is it hidden?
2. Is there no RAM on the Nspire, only Flash? The way you guys talk about the memory makes it seem so. The Wikipedia page (yes, I know) said it had 20 MB of User memory, but only 16 under Memory Register. Does this mean it uses/reserves 4 MB for the OS?

u/novenary January 20, 2017, 06:12:53 PM

You can downgrade all versions on the classic models.

u/gameblabla January 20, 2017, 06:42:44 PM

Quote from: 123outerme on January 20, 2017, 06:06:17 PM
So instead of downloading 3.6, I can download OS 3.1, replace the boot1 with ControlX (which I'm not sure but you said isn't released yet?) and have the same fix for less memory? Sounds good to me, if so. Also since Ndless can still hack 3.6, are you sure that I can't downgrade once I've installed Ndless?

Yup, in theory as malloc is found on boot1 if i'm not mistaken. Critor has released a test build of on tiplanet but not as stable yet.
Current version (4.3.5) doesn't work with OS 3.x.

B&W models have 16MB of RAM and 32MB of storage.
Latest OS is 3.9 so you can downgrade and upgrade at any time.

u/123outerme January 20, 2017, 06:44:57 PM

Quote from: gameblabla on January 20, 2017, 06:42:44 PM
Quote from: 123outerme on January 20, 2017, 06:06:17 PM
So instead of downloading 3.6, I can download OS 3.1, replace the boot1 with ControlX (which I'm not sure but you said isn't released yet?) and have the same fix for less memory? Sounds good to me, if so. Also since Ndless can still hack 3.6, are you sure that I can't downgrade once I've installed Ndless?
Yup, in theory as malloc is found on boot1 if i'm not mistaken. Critor has released a test build of on tiplanet but not as stable yet.
Current version (4.3.5) doesn't work with OS 3.x.

B&W models have 16MB of RAM and 32MB of storage.
Latest OS is 3.9 so you can downgrade and upgrade at any time.

Ok, thanks! I think I'll use 3.6 until the fix you described is available.

Quote from: Streetwalrus on January 20, 2017, 06:12:53 PM
You can downgrade all versions on the classic models.

Thanks Street, good to know.

u/novenary January 20, 2017, 06:54:26 PM

Quote from: gameblabla on January 20, 2017, 06:42:44 PM
B&W models have 16MB of RAM and 32MB of storage.
Latest OS is 3.9 so you can downgrade and upgrade at any time.

I know for absolute certain that they have 32MB of RAM.

u/123outerme January 20, 2017, 07:39:05 PM

Quote from: Streetwalrus on January 20, 2017, 06:54:26 PM
Quote from: gameblabla on January 20, 2017, 06:42:44 PM
B&W models have 16MB of RAM and 32MB of storage.
Latest OS is 3.9 so you can downgrade and upgrade at any time.
I know for absolute certain that they have 32MB of RAM.

Oh, ok, thanks. Like I said, Wikipedia is Wikipedia, so I wasn't expecting it to be that accurate. Thanks for the confirmation!

Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 08:38:49 PM by 123outerme

u/Vogtinator January 22, 2017, 12:17:33 AM

QuoteSo instead of downloading 3.6, I can download OS 3.1, replace the boot1 with ControlX (which I'm not sure but you said isn't released yet?) and have the same fix for less memory?

ControlX is an nBoot payload and thus only runs on CX HW < W.