Holy motherwalrifying walrianne, TI!
http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=15975&lang=en
O.O
So yeah, apparently there will be a TI-82 Advanced in France, featuring an exam LED. Probably due to 2018 France regulations? But anyway, if this calc ends up being a TI-84+, then I don't know what to expect anymore about future French TI calculator name.
I think the TI-81 Premium Plus Silver Stats Titanium.Fr is not far ahead now...
Advanced? Did they add two finger triggers and switched for a 32bit cpu? :p
Seriously, is the 2018 regulation a thing? F*ck, Casio is screwed there if so...
Ikr. TI is screwing up their model names and the new exam mode regulation is bullc. <_<
Indeed. I don't know, but if that new exam BS for 2018 in France goes through, then I think it won't be long before France bans every calc from tests, if not school as a whole, after 2018.
Also another issue is even if they don't ban calcs entirely, then it leaves the door open to restricting exams to just 1 calc model.
The good news is that the TI-84+CE has an exam DEL, so at least TI isn't trying to get schools to stick only to the TI-Nspire. Back in the days we feared that.
And today, a TI-82 Advanced DVT prototype review :
https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16297&p=180117#p180117
Fellow calculator programmers, imagine your worst nightmare...
The TI-82 Advanced is going to make it true ! :P
Apps handling has been removed... apps are now hard-coded within the OS.
The Asm( command was removed too.
It seems TI did like what Casio did with the fx-CP400...
Eyup, things are going ugly for us, coders. Does it seems like Ti is dropping Asm for 8x calcs? Not at this time as we still can on most of the calcs we can buy but welp...
Wow TI, really? They're locking down Z80 calcs too?
Unless it's to give people incentive to pay more and go with the CE instead. But I hope it's not in response to the hacking of the CE discussions going on.
That said, TI better not step on our toes and should leave the CE alone. Else I wonder if we could get some sort of mass petition launched?
Tey cray cray.
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on April 06, 2015, 08:03:05 PM
Wow TI, really? They're locking down Z80 calcs too?
Unless it's to give people incentive to pay more and go with the CE instead. But I hope it's not in response to the hacking of the CE discussions going on.
That said, TI better not step on our toes and should leave the CE alone. Else I wonder if we could get some sort of mass petition launched?
Petitions sound good. But what effect would they have on Ti they would see it as opening up the door for cheating <_<
It depends. If the petition is spread outside the TI community and the hacker community learns of a company trying to prevent third-party development on a platform the same way Apple and Sony did in the past, it could generate public outcry on the Internet, especially considering many people in the past used various third-party APPs like Symbolic.
But first we will have to investigate about when this calc and the official locked down OSes have entered into production and if they were developed by the same team that developed the TI-84+CE. If the TI-82 Advanced was created before the TI-84+CE, then it's possible that TI just wanted to make the calc have fewer feature to make Asm and Flash apps look more like a premium feature only available on high-end TI-84+ family models like the CE. After all, the TI-82 Advanced price is quite lower than the TI-84 Plus CE.
On the other hand, if the TI-82 Advanced was created after the CE, then I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before TI releases a new CE OS that removes ASM support. I'm hoping that the lack of ASM on the TI-82 Advanced is just a TI-83 Premium CE marketing tactic to be used via future calculator comparison charts or just a prototype-specific lockdown.
EDIT: Could it also be due to the 2018 exam changes in France? Maybe that's only gonna be a French thing? But then that could mean the TI-83 Premium CE will be locked down too if that's the case, unless the TI-82 Advanced hardware is just easier to hack and TI had no choice to remove ASM support altogether?
Has anyone tried the Send(9 syntax as replacement to the Asm( command?
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on April 06, 2015, 09:32:33 PMEDIT: Could it also be due to the 2018 exam changes in France? Maybe that's only gonna be a French thing? But then that could mean the TI-83 Premium CE will be locked down too if that's the case, unless the TI-82 Advanced hardware is just easier to hack and TI had no choice to remove ASM support altogether?
That's pretty much the assumption right now, and it makes perfect sense.
In France, people will have to buy new calculator now, because of the exams requiring the PTT mode with the LED. So, they want to spend as little as possible: The low-tier 82A will be perfect for 99% of students, because well, an overwhelming majority of student don't give a single d*mn about programmability (they don't know about it, and they simply don't care at all - this was already the case when I was in high school 7+ years ago, and it's only worse now, since smartphones are everyone's way to spend time). But for the few that will look at the store's other calcs for more than 30 seconds, and with something else than just the cost in mind, the 83PCE will clearly appear as way superior, and for less than 30euro more (assuming the 82A is at 60euro and the 83PCE a bit less than 90euro). So, the 83PCE is the middle tier. And the high-tier is the Nspire CX (CAS), which will probably still be priced at ≈ 120/130euro.
Interestingly enough, because of this new exam regulation in France, the 3 major calculator makers are in a harsh competition that can only be won by the one selling the regulation-allowed one at the lowest cost. TI will win if the 82A is priced at 60euro and the Casio ones a bit higher. HP having only the HP Prime, and costing much more, has no way of taking over the market. It'd be funny to have the Prime be sold at 59.99, though.
Yeah HP and Casio really need to get their act together about calculator pricing outside United States. In Canada, Casio prices are fine and I'm surprised they're not higher, but HP prices were atrocious not so long ago and in Europe it's just insane compared to TI prices.
That said, if TI really has plans to remove the Asm() and Flash app functionalities in future TI-83PCE OS updates, then I think I'm gonna stick to the TI-84+CE.
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on April 07, 2015, 02:51:53 AMThat said, if TI really has plans to remove the Asm() and Flash app functionalities in future TI-83PCE OS updates, then I think I'm gonna stick to the TI-84+CE
I don't see that happening, and I'd hate to be proven wrong.
I saw this on cemetech and to me it looks like what I'd imagine a ti 84 titanium would be. If it kept at least partial compatability with ti 84 ( /whatever France model = ) I'd be very surprised but I'm glad that ti is finally making a cheap calc.
Quote from: Adriweb on April 07, 2015, 03:18:49 AM
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on April 07, 2015, 02:51:53 AMThat said, if TI really has plans to remove the Asm() and Flash app functionalities in future TI-83PCE OS updates, then I think I'm gonna stick to the TI-84+CE
I don't see that happening, and I'd hate to be proven wrong.
Yeah I seriously hope that they don't go that far. What I was worried about is if they saw the Cemetech hacking thread (and possibly CW discussion if they know this forum exists yet) then decided to go all out mad rage mode against the TI community. I'm definitively hoping it's just a marketing ploy being planned to boast about the CE capabilities. Besides, they have some bugs to fix before they can think about adding/removing features, IMHO, especially that one bug that can crash the calc.
Quote from: CKH4 on April 07, 2015, 03:35:19 AM
I saw this on cemetech and to me it looks like what I'd imagine a ti 84 titanium would be. If it kept at least partial compatability with ti 84 ( /whatever France model = ) I'd be very surprised but I'm glad that ti is finally making a cheap calc.
They had cheaper models in the past actually. In USA, there was the TI-73 family, then years later in France, there was the TI-82 Stats.Fr (which was a TI-83 with newer modified hardware and a French ROM) and the even cheaper TI-76.Fr, removing functionalities. Maybe the TI-82 Advance is targeting schools that used the TI-76.Fr?
Time for the haxors of the millenias!
That's if the calc can be hacked at all. <_<
It would be hilarious if we could install an actual TI-84+ OS on it, but sadly I think it's gonna be protected by a 2048 signed key or something.
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on April 07, 2015, 05:03:16 AMIMHO, especially that one bug that can crash the calc.
It's been reported to TI and they confirmed it, so when the next OS version is out, I'm pretty sure it will be fixed. But I have no idea when a new OS release is going to happen.
Quote from: CKH4 on April 07, 2015, 03:35:19 AMMaybe the TI-82 Advance is targeting schools that used the TI-76.Fr?
It's not even the problem here. Because every student will need a exam-rules-compliant calculator by 2018, they will only have the choice between the TI-82 Advanced, TI-83 Premium CE, or TI-Nspire CX CAS. (And, well, whatever new model TI can release until 2018). So, the 73/76 etc. are just out of the market.
Wait there's going to be a new 8x OS?
Well, an update, at least, for bugfixes and such.
(Ans some of the things we reported during the betatesting phase, hopefully)
Quote from: Cumred_Snektron on April 07, 2015, 09:17:18 AM
Wait there's going to be a new 8x OS?
For the CE, yes. I am unsure if the TI-82+, 83+, 83+Fr USB, 83+SE, 84+, 84+SE and 84+CSE will ever be updated again.
Getting back to a slightly older post:
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on April 06, 2015, 08:03:05 PM
Wow TI, really? They're locking down Z80 calcs too?
Unless it's to give people incentive to pay more and go with the CE instead. But I hope it's not in response to the hacking of the CE discussions going on.
In the industry, development cycles for new products, even those which are small modifications to existing ones, take months. The 82A was already locked down long before the recent availability of the 84+CE, and the subsequent, unsurprising quick reverse-engineering :)
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on April 08, 2015, 05:47:29 AM
Quote from: Cumred_Snektron on April 07, 2015, 09:17:18 AM
Wait there's going to be a new 8x OS?
For the CE, yes. I am unsure if the TI-82+, 83+, 83+Fr USB, 83+SE, 84+, 84+SE and 84+CSE will ever be updated again.
Ohh, on that brick :) Though i presume it will be very much like the CSE os?
Yeah it's very similar, but of course it has quite a bit of new features too.
What kind of features do they have? I'm curious to see what could they could have added.
i could think of a lot of nice features, though TI probably wouldn't implement them <_<
Heh, Putting Asm back won't obvisouly work :^p
What? did they remove Asm( or something? (i dont really get it :/)
On the ti 82 advanced one of the changes was to remove asm(. They said it was to make it more testing friendly or cheaper or something.
Ooohhh, sorry, i thought it was referring to the new CE os <_<
Nope, they also removed the i/o port from all of their new calcs so I'm wondering if we'll get some cool USB stuff.
Actually, it's not so bad as I/O port is not really that needed with the amount of usb cable we have...
There is probably a TI-Planet article that explains the new features in OS 5.0. I'll try to find it later when I am home.
Quote from: Duke "Tape" Eiyeron on April 08, 2015, 03:54:29 PM
Actually, it's not so bad as I/O port is not really that needed with the amount of usb cable we have...
Too bad the usb is very weird to use in ASM (or maybe im not skilled enough). Anyway at least i can understand
the raw I/O port (and its easier to use with hardware connection :P)
It sucks that the I/O jack is gone from all new calcs including this one, though, because this renders the transfer of data between those models and the 83+/83+SE impossible...
Indeed. But getting users to buy new calculators is precisely the goal :)
Yes. But in USA the TI-83+ is still in production and being sold. In classrooms where all Z80 models are accepted, 83+ users will be even more cut off from the rest of the class now and not necessarily able to afford a more expensive calc (although there are fewer and fewer 83+ users now)
TI should just get rid of the 83+ and replace it with the 84+
It's ZShell all over again!
/me runs
Seriously, if they're that worried about ASM, why don't they just rerelease the TI-81 and have students buy that... Oops, my bad.
It would actually be funny if the old TI-82 way of hacking this calc would work. By the way I wonder if the screen is still the same or if it's memory-mapped, now that the CE uses one?
Is "memory mapped" like in the TI-84+ where the screen is just on a few bytes in the ram?
Memory Map means you have direct access to the screen's pixels as it were a memory location. Like a address range in your memory.
Ooh okay, thanks. Sooo... like the TI-84+ CSE?
Yep, what Eiyeron said. And nah more like the TI-85, 86 and early 68K hardwares. What I wonder about memory-mapping is if we can point to whatever memory location we want for screen display?
Usually that's the system which decide of this. Most of the time, the address is hard linked to the CPU but with a MMU system, you could have arbitrary memory mapping in your program. FiXos isplanned to support such mappings to allow future versions of MonochromeLib to be supported in a POSIX-line environment (the MMU breaks the direct memory access and thus we have to wrap the adress call to acces the right place).
So it's like a specific memory region especially appointed to be the display's ram, right?
Thanks Eiyeron for the explanation. And yeah Cumred. But the most important thing is that it's much faster this way than having to deal with a slow LCD driver and having no direct LCD access. This is why demos shown so far in videos are much faster on the CE than the CSE.
Ah okay, that makes sense.
After the huge success in France of the TI-82 Advanced, TI shares the same thing with the rest of the world under a different name.
Ladies and gentlemen, please proudly welcome the latest model in the TI-84 Plus line, the TI-84 Plus T :
(https://i.imgur.com/7vPvs7S.png) (https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17651&p=193334#p193334)
It's running a whole new OS 5.x with many improvements to the previous 2.55MP version :
- exam mode now does flash a LED :)
- no crash - asm programs now won't run anymore :)
- no data loss - preloaded apps now cannot be removed anymore :)
- no memory problem - other apps now cannot be loaded anymore :)
Source : https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17651&p=193334#p193334
That spells the end of monochrome Z80 programming >.<
I think they're trying to lure people towards the more expensive color models
This is NL only AFAWK, nothing to worry about for the rest of the world. Each major country can pretty much make TI abide by its (education ministry etc.) rules if it's profitable enough (for FR or NL, they kind of had to, since other TI calcs wouldn't have been accepted, to TI would have lost their market there, which isn't acceptable obviously...).
In France, sure we have the 82A, but at least we can still use the 83PCE, or better yet, the Nspire CX CAS.
Because you think TI did develop this new calculator with an *english* keypad only for NL ? :P
Try to anticipate a little. ;)
I'm mostly speaking about North America. The rest is much less important (though France might be the 2nd market for TI EdTech ? Oh well, at least the 83PCE is there)
I doubt the USA will change its current rules soon.
Yeah
@Adriweb I was speaking in long terms. If the 82 Advanced and those school restrictions have spread to NL and some other European countries, then perhaps USA, Canada and the rest of the world are next.
However, the question is: Does the removal of APP and ASM support has something to do with test restrictions? Because in such case TI makes no sense, since they have ASM/APP support in their brand new 83 Premium CE and 84+CE (even the 84+CE T has ASM support). I'm thinking more that ASM/APP support is now pushed as an extra feature on higher end calcs. But again, we never know. Perhaps we are slowly headed towards an entire calculator line with no ASM/Flash support, in which case we will have to do like with the TI-82 and 85, or worse if TI patches the exploits we use, in which case it would be the same cat and mouse game that we had to play for years with Ndless, but on every calc.
Or who knows? Maybe ASM/Flash support will eventually become a paid DLC like in video games? <_<
Quote from: critor on December 13, 2015, 08:09:16 PM
Because you think TI did develop this new calculator with an *english* keypad only for NL ? :P
Try to anticipate a little. ;)
Well on the other hand France is the only country to ever have gotten translated calcs. :P I suppose they're keeping it in english for consistency.
Actually that could explain things.
I've been using forums since at least 2002 or so and the thing I have noticed among people who use alphabet for their native language is that people from France have by far the highest amount of troubles understanding English language overall. In the TI community I often ran into people on yAronet and the like who did not even know what "the", "cat" and "hello" meant in French. It probably has to do with English classes being very bad in France and the unilingual nature of their country, but because of that, companies had to adapt to the market by translating everything. Even video games were translated in French, in a day and time when it was not common.
Meanwhile, in Quebec province, where 7 million people (out of 8 ) speak French, most video games often came out in English only until recently and all most electronics have English buttons. The TI-83 Plus, 84 PLus and 84 Plus CE will generally come pre-loaded with the Français app, but it will not be enabled by default. On the other hand, not only we are much more exposed to English people (especially Montreal), but we are surrounded by states and provinces that are almost English-only.
I don't know if that's a(nother) mistake from TI, but I checked the Dutch site for the TI-84 Plus T and in the features both BASIC and ASM are listed as programming language: https://education.ti.com/nl/nederland/products/ti-84-plus/ti-84-plus-t/tabs/overview#tab=specifications
QuoteProgrammeren
Ondersteunt de programmeertalen TI Basic en ASM
Programmeerfunctie waarbij het aantal programma's uitsluitend beperkt is door het beschikbare geheugen