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84+CE to be locked down against 3rd-party Flash APP development or tools?

Started by Dream of Omnimaga, March 12, 2015, 11:11:16 PM

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tr1p1ea

The _getCSC system call does support multiple arrow keypresses (on previous calcs at least), but its still far slower than direct access.

APPS are still an unknown at this point. Hooks might not be easily implemented either.

Dream of Omnimaga

Oh ok, I thought it only registered 1 key at a time. Doesn't it also lack quick key repeat (basically having a delay when you start holding down the key)? And yeah if you lack direct hardware access then it might be hard to implement hooks.

As for apps I wonder if it will be like Casio's picture converter where only specific people like teachers have access to it... who knows? Maybe it will just cost a massive amount of money. Of course in such case we could donate in mass to Kerm or something so he can develop Doors CE 9.0 but that is not really ideal for other people who might also want to develop apps.

However, is it really necessary for an app to be signed to run on calc? On the 83+ I remember that with Axe, back in the days its apps were not signed. However you could still run them 16 times. Would it be the same on the CE? In such case, the player would just need to resend the app to his calc each time he ran it 16 times, right? In such case, it might not be very ideal, but at least it would be better than nothing and we could just leave our apps unsigned. Doors CE could then be made so that you only need to run it once.

I am not sure if this is accurate, but that's what I seem to have gathered from early Axe dev in 2010.
  • Calculators owned: TI-82 Advanced Edition Python TI-84+ TI-84+CSE TI-84+CE TI-84+CEP TI-86 TI-89T cfx-9940GT fx-7400G+ fx 1.0+ fx-9750G+ fx-9860G fx-CG10 HP 49g+ HP 39g+ HP 39gs (bricked) HP 39gII HP Prime G1 HP Prime G2 Sharp EL-9600C
  • Consoles, mobile devices and vintage computers owned: Huawei P30 Lite, Moto G 5G, Nintendo 64 (broken), Playstation, Wii U

novenary

Ew that sucks. Why the hell do you do that TI ? They seem to be more and more hostile to the community. First they killed the awesome 68k line with the piece of crap they call the Nspire, now they're taking away the z80 line ? The alternatives that are available now boil down to Casio (with their calcs that easily compete with the 68k line) and the HP prime that should have beaten the hell out of the Nspire but ended up not doing it. >.>

Duke "Tape" Eiyeron

Ahem, now their calcs can rival with Nspire in terms of pure power. For the features no. Nspire calcs are the calcs with the most feature I could ever see. And its a shame that the Prime didn't got what it deserved, it looked like a rad calculator.
  • Calculators owned: A lot.

Snektron

Welp, it looks like someone needs to do some hardcore hacking. I also like how TI released the OS before the calculator.
  • Calculators owned: TI-84+
Legends say if you spam more than DJ Omnimaga, you will become a walrus...


novenary

Well the Prime has xcas built in. It's extremely featureful, just not integrated the right way into the os. :/

Dream of Omnimaga

Quote from: Streetwalrus on March 15, 2015, 08:33:26 AM
Ew that sucks. Why the hell do you do that TI ? They seem to be more and more hostile to the community. First they killed the awesome 68k line with the piece of crap they call the Nspire, now they're taking away the z80 line ? The alternatives that are available now boil down to Casio (with their calcs that easily compete with the 68k line) and the HP prime that should have beaten the hell out of the Nspire but ended up not doing it. >.>
They blocked hardware access on the CE in order to prevent people from tampering with the exam LED and PTT mode, because they don't want a repeat of what happened with the TI-84+ PTT mode. However, they're doing it wrong: They should instead just block access to those features in the hardware because everything else poses no threat.
  • Calculators owned: TI-82 Advanced Edition Python TI-84+ TI-84+CSE TI-84+CE TI-84+CEP TI-86 TI-89T cfx-9940GT fx-7400G+ fx 1.0+ fx-9750G+ fx-9860G fx-CG10 HP 49g+ HP 39g+ HP 39gs (bricked) HP 39gII HP Prime G1 HP Prime G2 Sharp EL-9600C
  • Consoles, mobile devices and vintage computers owned: Huawei P30 Lite, Moto G 5G, Nintendo 64 (broken), Playstation, Wii U

Dream of Omnimaga

So yeah, I think that for RPGs and such stuff, our best bet will be if someone writes a map engine program that also does movement. Unless exploits or other tricks are found as workaround to the Asm() command, this is probably the best we will be able to get from TI-83 Premium CE and 84 Plus CE hybrid BASIC:



This is The Reign of Legends 3 btw, running at 15 MHz. It came out before Omnicalc became OS 1.15+ compatible and before xLIB became a thing. Granted, with somehting like xLIB as 8xp things wouldn't be that bad, but walking would still be very slow.
  • Calculators owned: TI-82 Advanced Edition Python TI-84+ TI-84+CSE TI-84+CE TI-84+CEP TI-86 TI-89T cfx-9940GT fx-7400G+ fx 1.0+ fx-9750G+ fx-9860G fx-CG10 HP 49g+ HP 39g+ HP 39gs (bricked) HP 39gII HP Prime G1 HP Prime G2 Sharp EL-9600C
  • Consoles, mobile devices and vintage computers owned: Huawei P30 Lite, Moto G 5G, Nintendo 64 (broken), Playstation, Wii U

tr1p1ea

Lol - Yeah I do think it will still be possible to have nice graphics and OK speed ... It just sucks because the potential for MUCH better graphical performance is there - just locked away.

Dream of Omnimaga

The worst part is that apparently the calc is clocked to 14 MHz during most operations and math only runs about 15-20% faster, according to TI-Planet and Cemetech reports, respectively. When pipelining is full it would apparently run at 48 MHz and screen stuff is 2.6 times faster. What speed will ASM coders have access to if hardware is locked down?

As for the speed of hybrid BASIC I think someone will have to write a map engine or something.
  • Calculators owned: TI-82 Advanced Edition Python TI-84+ TI-84+CSE TI-84+CE TI-84+CEP TI-86 TI-89T cfx-9940GT fx-7400G+ fx 1.0+ fx-9750G+ fx-9860G fx-CG10 HP 49g+ HP 39g+ HP 39gs (bricked) HP 39gII HP Prime G1 HP Prime G2 Sharp EL-9600C
  • Consoles, mobile devices and vintage computers owned: Huawei P30 Lite, Moto G 5G, Nintendo 64 (broken), Playstation, Wii U

Snektron

maybe if someone really wants, they can write a hack that changes code in the 1st ram page (if that works) that stops the OS from restricting hardware access,
but thats probably not how it works :P
  • Calculators owned: TI-84+
Legends say if you spam more than DJ Omnimaga, you will become a walrus...


Dream of Omnimaga

I'm fairly sure it's much more complicated than that. Unless TI gives us more access I think it will have to be something like Ndless being implemented into one single shell or something and that shell coming with plenty of useful advanced routines for ASM and hybrid BASIC coders. Ideally, to reduce chances that TI patches the exploit and to delay such patch, the exploit should probably come with a license disallowing re-use of that code for unlocking exam modes and such things and to fork the program to allow doing so. Of course, it's still possible that people will just check how it was done then release a PTTKiller tool, but since it's against the rules of all active TI forums to post links to such tools, they probably won't make much noise here.
  • Calculators owned: TI-82 Advanced Edition Python TI-84+ TI-84+CSE TI-84+CE TI-84+CEP TI-86 TI-89T cfx-9940GT fx-7400G+ fx 1.0+ fx-9750G+ fx-9860G fx-CG10 HP 49g+ HP 39g+ HP 39gs (bricked) HP 39gII HP Prime G1 HP Prime G2 Sharp EL-9600C
  • Consoles, mobile devices and vintage computers owned: Huawei P30 Lite, Moto G 5G, Nintendo 64 (broken), Playstation, Wii U

novenary

Well the TI85 and 92 were hacked for asm even though they didn't originally support it. So I guess it can be managed.

Adriweb

So, you guys may have missed that:

More tests, with tr1p1ea's program showing a full-screen image scrolling:


Video: http://gfycat.com/ScholarlyFeminineEeve
(it'd be nice to have a webm bbcode :D)

A full scroll takes around 4.2 seconds (with USB not plugged in), and according to Runer112, that's like ≈ 35 FPS.
  • Calculators owned: TI-Nspire CX CAS, TI-Nspire CX, TI-Nspire CAS (x3), TI-Nspire (x2), TI-Nspire CM-C CAS, TI-Nspire CAS+, TI-80, TI-82 Stats.fr, TI-82 Plus, TI-83 Plus, TI-83 Plus.fr USB, TI-84+, TI-84+ Pocket SE, TI-84+ C Silver Edition, TI-84 Plus CE, TI-89 Titanium, TI-86, TI-Voyage 200, TI-Collège Plus, TI-Collège Plus Solaire, 3 HP, some Casios
Co-founder & co-administrator of TI-Planet and Inspired-Lua

Duke "Tape" Eiyeron

USB does slow calcs? I've never noticed that. Howuch does it slow down the calc?
  • Calculators owned: A lot.

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