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Development => Calculators => Calculator News, Coding, Help & Talk => Topic started by: Dream of Omnimaga on October 30, 2015, 02:57:49 AM

Title: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on October 30, 2015, 02:57:49 AM
I saw a topic on TI-Planet https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=17473 and I thought it would be interesting to see what people here would like as a new graphing calculator, what they expect the next TI/Casio/HP calculator to be, in terms of technical specs (eg processor name, speed, RAM, flash, etc). :)

Make sure to be somewhat realistic, though, perhaps basing yourself on past TI calculator releases or smartphone attempts at dabbling into calculators (eg Lexibook).
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Ivoah on October 30, 2015, 02:59:34 AM
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on October 30, 2015, 02:57:49 AM
I saw a topic on TI-Planet https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=17473 and I thought it would be interesting to see what people here would like as a new graphing calculator, what they expect the next TI/Casio/HP calculator to be, in terms of technical specs (eg processor name, speed, RAM, flash, etc). :)

Make sure to be somewhat realistic, though, perhaps basing yourself on past TI calculator releases or smartphone attempts at dabbling into calculators (eg Lexibook).

Something like the Nspire except with a better processor and documented + larger flash chip. You know, so we can run linux easier :P Maybe add a full USB host port too.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on October 30, 2015, 03:10:19 AM
A few years ago, there were rumors about a TI-Nspire Premium coming out, but then we never heard again from it. There is probably a news about it on TI-Planet. The Nspire CX memory, while larger than previous model, is shrinking more and more with new OSes and some stuff on that calc seemed a bit slow. I think a Premium CX would be a nice addition with twice more Flash and a processor as fast as the HP Prime, because that would at least alleviate the problems resulting from blocking Ndless by making Lua faster. A TI-84+CE with an even faster processor would not hurt either, because typing in the program editor is still slow and it still takes forever to scroll through program code.

But I think TI would be stupid and greedy enough to release a TI-84 Premium CE with a 1080p HD LCD, but with fewer RAM and stick with a 48 MHz ez80 CPU. <_<
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Yuki on October 30, 2015, 05:20:32 AM
My dream calculator, eh?

The hardware would definitely be on par with current phones, ARM chip clocked at around a gigahertz and a good GPU so it could support an UI as polished as Android, maybe even Android itself, with fancy 2D and 3D plotting apps, a powerful CAS allowing computation power akin to Mathematica and Maple, Lua programming maybe, but the option of making your own apps should be important. Touch screen too, to easily move through the plots.

Yeah, probably an Android phone with a calc keyboard more aimed at education. iPads and tablets are more and more used in schools for teaching, why not developing calcs with similar hardware and software? TI did iOS and Android apps for education, that's a good start, HP could definitely do something like that as well.

In short, stop making severely underpowered calcs and start doing calcs that actually have powerful computing power like the CASes sold for PC.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: alexgt on November 01, 2015, 06:28:25 AM
I would say my dream calc would not really be a calc but for the Prime to have the community that the ti-84+  has/had.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Snektron on November 01, 2015, 10:06:51 AM
I would need a gpu chip. You know... so i can make a fbo particle system... :P
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on November 03, 2015, 09:29:48 AM
Quote from: alexgt on November 01, 2015, 06:28:25 AM
I would say my dream calc would not really be a calc but for the Prime to have the community that the ti-84+  has/had.
Actually I kinda wish that TI had released a TI-Nspire calc with a TI-BASIC language similar to HP PPL and programmable on-calc by default. Sadly, it would most likely be as locked-down as the Nspire, though.

Quote from: Cumred_Snektron on November 01, 2015, 10:06:51 AM
I would need a gpu chip. You know... so i can make a fbo particle system... :P
The HP Prime has hardware acceleration IIRC. I wonder if that would be enough?


Quote from: Juju on October 30, 2015, 05:20:32 AM
My dream calculator, eh?

The hardware would definitely be on par with current phones, ARM chip clocked at around a gigahertz and a good GPU so it could support an UI as polished as Android, maybe even Android itself, with fancy 2D and 3D plotting apps, a powerful CAS allowing computation power akin to Mathematica and Maple, Lua programming maybe, but the option of making your own apps should be important. Touch screen too, to easily move through the plots.

Yeah, probably an Android phone with a calc keyboard more aimed at education. iPads and tablets are more and more used in schools for teaching, why not developing calcs with similar hardware and software? TI did iOS and Android apps for education, that's a good start, HP could definitely do something like that as well.

In short, stop making severely underpowered calcs and start doing calcs that actually have powerful computing power like the CASes sold for PC.
That already exists IIRC. It's called Lexibook tablets, but the problem is that it's not a real calculator and more an actual tablet falsely advertised as an exam-compliant device. It would need to be a school tablet that contains an exam mode and clearly looks like a school thing (eg yellow color?) so students won't try to pass their iPads off as the device. The exam mode would disable any possibility of enabling wi-fi/3G/connectivity (other than charging) until a certain hour.

But then when those devices come out this means we have to branch out from calc programming >.<
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Araidia on November 03, 2015, 07:28:53 PM
I would love a TI84+ with the power of a TI nspire...
Or maybe the power of a computer
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: alexgt on November 04, 2015, 03:12:06 AM
I want a shrinking device

/me builds skyscraper in shape of calculator filled with supper computers and a electronic billboard on the front

* alexgt quietly whispers "world control fall of phones rise of calculators..."
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on November 07, 2015, 11:22:30 PM
Quote from: Araidia on November 03, 2015, 07:28:53 PM
I would love a TI84+ with the power of a TI nspire...
Or maybe the power of a computer
I remember when the 84+CE was first announced. Since thr Nspire used to have a 84+ emu, we thought that with the CE TI went the lazy route of making it an ARM calculator with a Z80 emulator on it, with speed throttling removed, just like the HP 50g. That would have been a waste of power.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: profrd on January 17, 2016, 10:01:42 PM
Actually the " Calculator " of my dreams has now been finally provided, by affordably priced [ Windows ] 8 inch [ Tablets ] like ThinkPad8, with Hardware well above the specs of a mere Calculator, allowing not only the full advantage of a very broad range of Calculator [ Emulators ], but also the installation of [ Powerful ] Computer Algebra Systems, like Maple and Mathematica ( just to name a few ), and any kind of Math/Science/Engineering related software packages.

Being a Heavy User since the late 70's of both HP and TI Calculators, and still owning milestone [ Jewels ] ( of their time ) like HP-67, TI-59, HP-41C, HP-34C, HP-15C and actual models like TI-89 Titanium, Voyage 200, HP 50g, TI-Nspire CX CAS and HP Prime, it seems clear to me that to still stay competitive on the Portable Computation market, all Calculator manufacturers must "evolve" to actual time, were Tablets, which were originally just Android/IOS Based " Smartphones " with Bigger screens, have now evolved to Complete PCs with hardware comparable to low end " Netbooks " ( missing only internal DVD-ROM or Magnetic Hard Disk drives ).

With the advent of now [ Windows ] based [ Tablets ], at HandHoldable sizes like 7 or 8 inch models it seems clear that today Calculators, even Top Notch models like TI-Nspire CX CAS or HP Prime, are still miles and miles from what actual Portable technology can produce ( and now at an reasonably affordable price ).

For Texas Instruments TI-Nspire CX line of products, the early adoption of a TouchPad ( instead of a Touch Screen ), is unacceptable for today standards, and surely future models are expected to come with Touch Screen capabilities, and a reasonably Larger screen ( fully occupying the touchpad area ).

Another blatant lack of Hardware resources from actual Calculators ( and more than Desirable on Future lines of "Dream" Calculators ) are missing MicroHDMI output, Bluetooth and Full Wireless Capabilities, and more than one USB port connection, and USB 3.0 support of external devices, at least Flash ones like MicroSD cards or Pendrives, and the ability to handle Mouse/External Keyboards by any of actual comunnication standards like USB, Bluetooth or Wireless.

Surelly All such " Dream " features are available on Today [ Windows ] based [ Tablets ] like Lenovo Thinkpad8, and many similar models, and comparatively priced options from other manufacturers.

For the actual newest Calculator from Hewlett Packard, the HP Prime ( at least with Touch Screen capability ), the addition of a few of the Desirable resources listed above, like MicroSD card or USB Pendrive support, allowing the extension of external calculator storage or quick Backup of its contentes, and internal ( onCalc ) wireless capabilities ( without the need of external dongles ), and Bluetooth support allowing the adoption of external Keyboard/Mouse combos, and MicroHDMI output would surelly be Dream features of potential new HP Prime successors.

One point of notice, is that Legendary ( Programmable ) Calculators from the past, in their strict sense, were Top of Notch ( Handheld ) Portable Computational resources at their time, and not niched towards just only Educational purposes, but used Mostly by Technical Professionals like Engineers or any other career with Numerical/Mathematical needs, and of course students and professors of all Math related areas.

It seems clear by now that the [ actual ] " Calculator " models are Hardware limited due to being specifically niched toward [ Educational ] environments, and were the real " plague " is the infinite "cheating" abilities which would be open if more powerful devices were released for such Educational markets.

Its the same problem faced up by modern society, were thieves freely walk trough the streets, and the tax paying citizens stays behing closed bars, at their securely monitored offices, buildings, and (fire)wall protected "castles" ...

For such, if future calculators were still limited by such deviation of behavior ( of a few some ), like "cheating", its clear that Approved Models for SAT or any other kind of Standart Test, should simply do Not provide any Programming capability at all, being just plain and Dumb ( numerical ) "calculators" ( just considerably Faster than their Legendary predecessor from past ).

It seems clear that ( handheld ) Calculators with Capital [C] ( and without " " ) are a dying species, due mostly to the Limitations imposed from the Educational niche, wich even with [ Test ] mode features now fully adopted and implemented by most major manufacturer, still dictates the very slow course of potential future improvements, even on the Top Notch models, which could still be adopted by some Technical areas, if some of the limitations were released from future models.

Its also very hard to notice that more and more with time, Calculators are inevitably faded to become "Calculators", then calculators, until only "calculators", and hopefully not just ( handheld ) Toys ..., if compared to similar sized Portable devices of today ( and expected to "survive" in the near future ), like Android/IOS Smartphones or Handhold(able) [Windows] Tablets.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on January 18, 2016, 05:00:21 AM
Heya and welcome to the forums. :) The main issue with tablets and smartphones is that students can enable wi-fi/3G at will during exams and they lack an exam mode. As long as this is the case, then smartphones will never be allowed in exams. What TI, HP and Casio might need to do are tablets that can do stuff normal tablets can do, but more restricted, such as an exam mode that disables everything including SMS. But will students want to replace their smartphone or tablet with one that is cheating-proof?

Another reason why smartphones will not replace calculators as fast as they normally should is that many students are idiots and their parents are to blame. Will teachers be willing to spend 60 minutes per class disciplining unruly students who spend the entire class texting or on Internet? Some schools even banned smartphones and tablets outright for that reason. Tablets would fix the SMS/ringtone going off issue, but not the Internet/games one.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: GalacticPirate on January 18, 2016, 11:53:00 AM
Perhaps an Nspire with the built-in Wolfram/Alpha CAS engine and an Skylake Intel Core i7 chip with 32 GB RAM ? :trollface:
/me runs far, far away
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Araidia on January 18, 2016, 04:21:53 PM
Quote from: STV on January 18, 2016, 11:53:00 AM
Perhaps an Nspire with the built-in Wolfram/Alpha CAS engine and an Skylake Intel Core i7 chip with 32 GB RAM ? :trollface:
/me runs far, far away
And a Terabyte of SSD
And a nvidia gtx 980
At this rate, the calculator would be pc sized  ;D
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Unicorn on January 19, 2016, 06:29:09 AM
Perhaps of you got rid of the gpu.... You would only need the intergrated graphics on the i7 :P
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: alexgt on January 19, 2016, 02:05:05 PM
I would want a quantum computer in the size of a Prime :trollface:
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: ben_g on January 19, 2016, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: alexgt on January 19, 2016, 02:05:05 PM
I would want a quantum computer in the size of a Prime :trollface:
Well, then I wish you good luck in understanding the complex quantum mechanics you need to know to be able to program it efficiently :trollface:
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: alexgt on January 19, 2016, 02:52:58 PM
Meh, I would learn :P

/me googles it, nothing shows up, chucks computer at wall
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on January 19, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
I wonder if quantum computers have been successfully made so far...
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: alexgt on January 19, 2016, 08:24:22 PM
Yeah, quantum computers actually have been made, some people used it to break sudo-primes (A number that equals two primes times by each other).
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: profrd on January 28, 2016, 12:23:52 AM
My Sincere and Great Thanks for All and in special to DJ Omnimaga for providing [ codewalr.us ] open to such quite almost unnoticed or barely seeked topic like this very interesting ( and controversial ) one, since it seems that ( portable ) Calculator "evolution" has shifted its pace during its four decades of history ( with this trend "shift" not being properly recognized nor documented in the fine and ample details it truly deserves ).

What initially started at the early 70's as a "de facto" more than effective [ Tool ] for Math concerned areas like Engineering, has near two decades ago shifted towards a Student centered product, since the vast array of Computational Portable devices offering much more powerful features than stand alone portable Calculators, has lead most of the Technical careers to shift toward Notebooks (aka Laptops), then Netbooks and now ( Conversible ) Tablets and Smartphones, leaving the Calculator Market centered mostly on Educational environments.

The rare exceptions of professionals now at their 40's or 50's ( or a bit more ) still "Wandering" about every new Calculator model release, are the Heavy Users from the 70's & 80's "Golden Age" era, when HP or TI Calculators were indeed the very essential Portable "Computers" of their time ...

Its needless to say that in my case, the HP-25 & Sinclair Cambridge Programmable calculators, and briefely afterwards the HP-67 & TI-59, were not only the very first "Computers" from which I not only developed my [ Math ] skills, but also specially side by side and at the [ Same ] time lead me towards my very first "steps" into [ Programming ] in their "Assembly" like environment ( permeated not only with logical and branching commands but mostly with high level transcendental math functions, available only on languages like Fortran, which demanded a near one room computer to run on a freezing like environment, if one were not lucky enough to have access to a remote time sharing terminal, and had to struggle with decks of perforated cards typed on such prehistorical keypunchers ... ).

Its interesting to note that almost seldom, portable Calculators were truly explored at classrooms as very effective means of [ Teaching ] not only Mathematics, but specially Computational [ Programming ] indeed.

The long term Heavy Users from past know exactly what I am talking about, since the Memory space limitations of the Legendary models of the 70's and 80's, imposed not only a high dose of discipline but most of all improvisation and imagination ( if not "Pure Art" at all ) so as to efectively meet such ( by nowadays standards ) absurdely "unimaginable" restraints like a few hundred ( or fewer ) "steps"

The same kind of Physical/Memory space limitations were severely faced by the very Pionners & Heroic Programmers of the Apollo Guidance Computer ... ( when they had to "invent" the concept of task time sharing, so as to lead the Computer to effectively "compute" without being indefinitely "disturbed" by other routine tasks also controlled by such precious bunch of circuits ).

For those interested in the Computational History of the Apollo Program there are valuable books ( just seek for "Apollo Guidance Computer" ) and also the Discovery documentary "Moon Machines" ( also available on DVD ) and the Wikipedia page on the theme at [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer) ].

One fact not noticed by all Moon Landing documentaries, is that if it were not due to Armstrong exceptional talent ( very early acquired, during his brilliant career as X-15 test pilot and Gemini astronaut ), the very first "moonlanding" would have ended up in fact as the very first Computer controlled "mooncrash", since following routines documented on the instruction manual, near the landing Aldrin issued a comannd for the computer to perform a distance calculation, which cumulated with other tasks already on course, leading to a executive overflow and repeated "1202 alarms", which culminated to Armstrong effectively Assuming his main role as the "Real" Pilot, and override Computer distressing signals, since it was visually clear to the crew if they were "conducted" by the Computer route, they would surely colide to an unexpected rocky terrain, since the Computer "calculations" had just missed the target landing zone by a few miles, which eventually could lead the ship without enough fuel for landing ... It was one very interesting crucial  "battle" were human superates machines due to their talent and improvisation habilities, and one of the very first ones in the space and computer era ... ( I beg the pardon for other readers for being a bit Off-Topic on the above paragraphs, but the fact seemed of great interest to me and potentially to others, and can be fully appreciated in detail at Wikipedia [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_11) ] ).

Returning to the Main concern of this [ Topic ], it seems clear that even today Top Notch Calculators do indeed miss a lot of desirable features, due mainly to the Restrictions imposed for their adoption at school examinations ...

One possible solution and seldom commented option which could be implemented by manufacturers, would be some sort of Wi-Fi [ Blocking ] mechanism ( available only to Teachers by means of some form of special equipment ) which when broadcasted and issued by the [ Teacher ] would put all the Calculators ( of such brand on the room ) on Exam Mode, limiting all sort of machine machine communication ( except from the Teacher device ), and thus not relying just on the [ Student ] side Initative to voluntarilly Switch to such comunnication Limited Exam Mode.

By the global adoption by manufacturers of Blocking mechanisms as described ( or by actual [ Press ] to Test Mode keystrokes ) with Visual LED signals clues of such Limiting exam "State", futurely launched new [C]alculators ( with Capital C ) could eventually "upgrade" to the format of effective Tablets running some sort of High Level OS, like Linux ( instead of the common Android based gadgets ), leaving the student, teacher or technical professional the ability to have [ Both ] products at once. A powerful Tablet at home, and an equally Powerful not only "Calculator" anymore but Portable and Programmable Computational device of their unimaginned Dreams ( or fears ) ... at home and school.

The Most desirable ( and "Exam" unquestionable ) features for New calculators would be MicroSD slots, multiple micro/USB 3.0 ports, microHDMI and Wireless DLNA Full HD output, aside from indispensable Multitouch Capacitive Millions of Colors TouchScreens covering [ almost ] all the calculator body like Casio ClassPad II fx CP-400, with some indeed indispensable Keys like numeric, arithmetic, Shift/Ctrl/Menus, otherwise the new futurely released "Calculators" would be just slimmed down versions of Tablets, if they were to "upgrade" to full TouchScreen format without a bunch of Keys ( which had Always been any portable/keystrokable Calculator "registered" trademark, since their very first conception ).

Some of the More than desirable but indeed controvertial "Exam" questionable features would be Bluetooth and Wi-Fi since they would depend on effective Exam Mode [ Blocking ] mechanisms ( a bit more difficult to Globally implement by means of a Signal Blocking Teacher device Brodcaster, in the particular case of Bluetooth ).

One virtually unecessary feature would be Cellphone/SMS comunication of any sort, since if one seeks for a "Calculator" specifically for such resource there are Plenty of Smartphones available, but surelly None "Exam" approved by any school.

As stated on my previous post, with the advent of now affordable Windows Tablets, it seems that Calculator manufacturers would need to "re-invent" themselves and think of Desirable New features to include on potential New models ...

HP Prime, has taken the First Step converging to such "hybrid" transition, by including Touch Screen capabilitiy, but with some strong reminescences of the four decade past, like still having a considerable number of Keys, eventually limiting the Screen size to an actually very Small one, if compared with actual smartphones standards ...

Prime although a Great improvement and Spetacular product, also made one step Back ( if compared to its predecessors HP-49/50g ), by simply Removing any form of SD/MicroSD Card support from HP Prime, not allowing the Backup and easy porting of applications between Calculators or Computers, which in case of ( early ) Hardware version [ A ] Prime models, no form of Calc to Calc communication is possible at all, leaving one to just Calc to Computer connection through USB.

Also having USB port and not allowing OTG extensions like wired Keyboards or Mouses is also a really Missing feature, which were more than fully expected from such a 21'st century relatively recent release from HP.

At the time of TI Nspire CX/CAS launching ( aside from debuting its first Color Screen model ), the availability of a TouchPad like in "real" notebooks seemed a more than desirable resource, since TouchScreens were relatively rare and not cost effective ( at that time ).

Nowadays TouchScreen has become the "de facto" standard and it seems plausible that TI launches its next model with a Larger ( and this time ) Touchable Screen, using all the space left out by the outdated TouchPad portion.

TI Nspire operating system interface and file structure seems more Natural to computer users, than HP Prime Apps model ( geared and more appealing towards android / ios users ). I personally prefer the more standard TI Nspire OS/File interface structure than HP Apps model.

HP Prime also revigorated its Programming capabilities by allowing a now much more appealling procedural language, in detriment of its previous RPN based RPL language ( which after years of Procedural Computer Language programming I must frankly admit, that even for an Earlier RPN Hevy user, the Procedural approach seems more simple and less error phrone, but not more elegant and consise than RPN ).

TI Nspire now accepts OnCalc Lua Programming, which compensates for its previous lack of such OnCalc support, at the time of the very first launchings of its OS.

A Real "Dream" ( not yet come true ) to me would be a Calculator with [ Perl ] programming language capability, but Lua on TI Nspire and HP Prime Programming languages are more than equivalent substitutes.

One [ Very ] Interesting and almost missing Heavy User "calculation" feature now available to TI Nspire by the installation of [ KhiCAS ] package available at [ http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/calc/khicas.zip (http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/calc/khicas.zip) ], Officially Announced at TIPlanet on [ https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14800&p=166225&lang=en (https://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14800&p=166225&lang=en) ] and developed by Bernard Parisse ( author of Giac/XCAS [ http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/install_en#ti (http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/install_en#ti) ], the effective CAS Kernel also adopted and succesfully ported to HP Prime ), is [ Indefinite / Arbitrary ] precision [ Floating ] point arithmetic, which means that by the installation of [ KhiCAS ] on TI Nspire CX or CX CAS ( not necessarily just on a CX CAS model ), one is able to Calculate floating Numerical constants like Pi, e, Sqrt(2) to any Number of specified [ Digits ], by simply changing the Default value of the [ Digits ] package variable, to any reasonable and desirable number of decimal places ( by just attributing Digits := n ).

Its interesting to note that the [ KhiCAS ] package do indeed need the installation of [ ndless ] package ( corresponding to the Machine OS Version, and not available for the Newer/Upgraded models like OS 4.x ), and that [ ndless ] must be "Active" on TI Nspire for KhiCAS to run ... Notice also that after any sort of calc rebooting ( unexpected or user requested by pressing the back reset button ), [ ndless ] "needs" to be re-"installed" ( in fact re-invoked ) so as to [ KhiCAS ] to run again.

On personal contact with Bernard Parisse and Tim Wessmann ( from HP ), I asked why the implementation of [ Indefinite / Arbitrary ] precision [ Floating ] point arithmetic is still [ Missing ] on HP Prime, since it do indeed has all the necessary internal software calls to the just actually Not yet implemented / ported [ LongFloat ] Library, and what Bernard and Tim informed was that the LongFloat library adopted by Giac, is based on GPL Licenses, which would require that the hole distribuition source ( of the entire port of Giac to HP Prime ) be freely released with any implementation relying on the LongFloat Library. They both acknowledge that such more than Valuable resource is a more than Desirable feature to be ported to HP Prime, and my hope is that on a Long Term, it might be eventually made available on further official HP Prime OS releases on a not so near future.

At this actual time, with [ KhiCAS ] installed, TI Nspire calcs simply becomes not only the Most Powerful portable Symbolic [ Calculators ], but the very first ones to support two distinct CAS (Computer Algebra Systems).

Its also one of the very first times ( since the older OS 3.1 models ) that a Complete CAS System can be installed on a TI Nspire CX ( non CAS ) model, and Bernard Parisse fully adverts students as to Not "cheating" during Exams ...
 
Which turns again to one of the main questions concerning the "evolution" of future calculators, to stay once more as stripped down versions of now much more effective Computational [ Portable ] devices like Tablets and Smartphones, or to trully innovate and still compete in such "Brave New World" ( much more of des/in-formation than of numerical/scientific computation ... ).

The "cheating" limitations imposed on hardware due to the manufacture of strict "Exam Compliant" devices, seems to prevent much further interest of future generations on sole "Calculators", since they will be more than prematurely exposed by other means ( appart from the educational environment ) to much more appealing and powerful gadgets like Tablets and Smartphones or whatever may become their "successful" successors, igniting the same "magic" like the portable Calculators "wave" meant to the growing generations of the 70's and 80's ( which eventually lead to some still active and "persistent" technology "enchanted" Heavy Users from the past, like the one writing this "testament" and many even More Active ones, like DJ Omnimaga ... )

One final notice, which may explain most of my renewed "enchantment" with portable Calculator devices, even now on my 50's is that on my 13's I have been "exposed" to a Fatal Combination: A fresh new HP-25 ( with only its original French Manuals ), and "discovered" by myself ( standing on the library bookshelf of my high school ) the book "Numerical Methods in FORTRAN" by John McCormick and Mario G. Salvadori ( which decades later I could definetively acquire a perfect state used exemplar from BN ). That "combination" of Numerical Mathematics and Computer Programming, has stayed as the single "constant" in my hole life, and after the day I "discovered" the existence of Numerical Methods algorithms, and had in hand a more than "appealing" gadget like the HP-25 at that time, I could not resist in fully understanting all its resources, and at the same time exploit all the Power that Computational Programming could lead me to, literally seeing Newton-Raphson sequences Converge at my hands and just in front of my mesmerized eyes ...

Its such "enchantment" that actual and future generations may be missing, if [C]alculators were faded to become "Calculators", then calculators, and "calculators"..., until complete obsolescence like Type Writer machines, or Slide Rules ... ( just see the Apollo 13 movie scene were the ground crew were to confirm the hand made calculations by the astronaut onboard of the Apollo, and all ground men more than ably rushed their fingers through their sliding mechanisms, since the concept of a time sharing terminal dedicated for manual calculations was still out of reach at that time, and no spare terminal resources were allocated for such unusual tasks, and if one were to "awake" some entire room computer just to confirm the calculation, at the time the mamonth had produced the results, it would simply have missed the target ).

I beg the pardon and apologize other "patient" readers for such more than extense "testament", since Calculators deserve more attention than they actually receive, as since the very First Steps of Mathematics while mankind were still learning to count, the concept of Calculation and Algorithms were involved, and programmable ( portable ) Calculators were just the culmination of such very long term evolution avenue ...

To end this post, I invite others to just try to "imagine", if somehow at the time Donald Ervin Knuth were just about his 12's or 13's, if he were "presented" with an actual Top Notch Calculator like HP Prime or TI Nspire, and wander at what unexpected newer heights the "Art of Computer Programming" could have reached at the time of its inception, if since the early days of his youth he had at hand such captivating computer device ...

The same argument applies to all Brave past Generations of Truly Giants, if they had full access to todays Windows Tablets running the latest version of Maple or Mathematica ...
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: profrd on January 29, 2016, 04:41:08 PM
The Voyage [ "2000" ] of my Dreams ...

From all the Calculators I still very proudly own, one particular model the [ TI Voyage 200 ] was one that provided me with my Best overall Experience, due to its rather innovative interface design, with QWERT integrated Keyboard and Larger Screen display offered at that time.

It seems clear from the discussions on this post, that if Calculator manufacturers were to still compete with other forms of Portable computational devices like Tablets or Smartphones, that they should re-invent themselves, providing future Calculators with some attractive features, already available on the other portable devices, like TouchScreen, among other desirable resources.

What actually turn a Calculator distinct from a Tablet or TouchScreen Smartphone, is that All calculators ( even Casio CP-400 ) provides at least an [ Integrated ] Physical Keyboard, which surelly Tablets or today ( purelly TouchScreen ) Smartphones do Not ... ( at least not factory integrated on the device ).

From that perspective, TI Voyage 200, and its very inovative predecessors the TI-92 and 92-Plus, offered at that time a Real "Computer" like appeal, with the inclusion of a complete QWERT keyboard, like the ones available on past BASIC Portable Computers from Casio, Sharp and RadioShack.

If Texas Instruments were to seek some sort of atractiveness to a future launching of a TI Nspire sucessor, it surelly must seek back to what previous features provided their users with the Best Experience ...

Clearly due to Standard Examination restrictions a QWERT keyboard nowadays would mean the banishment from part of the
examinations, but some clever re-interpretation of the rules as the one provided by TI Nspire with an ABCDEF keyboard, might have bypassed the QWERT restriction ... still providing a complete alphabetic keyboard ( just on a nonstandard displacement of Keys ).

If such were the examination restraints, Texas should think about still adopting the same ABCDEF approach from Nspire to their futurelly released models.

The point in question would be what design format should be more appropriate, a traditional Portrait or a rather unusual but plenty more effective Landscape displacement like Voyage 200, TI-92 and 92-Plus ...

I personally think that a 21st century Voyage "2000" should adopt the Landscape design, and include all successfull features from TI Nspire like its Operating System and Software Base, but on a new [ Thiner ] Landscape ( Tablet or Ultrabook like ) casing, but still keeping a Physical ABCDEF keyboard ( plus standard math related multi Keys with at least 2 colors like HP, plus Shift, Ctrl, Esc ), an Enlarged Color TouchScreen display ( keeping an eventual Touchpad integrated on the Large 4 arrows key adopted by Nspire ), with some extra desirable resources like MicroSD and OTG USB port support, HDMI and Wireless DLNA Output, and eventually a Free of cost ( Windows platform ) or affordable ( Android / IOS ) emulators.

That hypothetical Hybrid machine, could still be called a [ Calculator ], but with plenty revigorated features, so as to keep future generations still Wandering about new launching of such Gadgets ...

Another point that Texas Instruments could improve, on New OS releases even for the TI Nspire, is the Back [ Scrolling ] of Past expressions ...

The extremely slow, character by character scroll approach adopted on Nspire, without another option of quickier scrolling [ Review ] method like the ones provided by past TI models like Voyage 200 or TI-89, where the hole expression was shifted by some screen amount while Reviewing past expressions, was one of the reasons for me to consider the purchase of another Calculator, like HP Prime, which simply Excells on past expressions Scrolling, due to its TouchScreen interface.

Well, if someone could effectively "reach" Texas Instruments, it would be very interesting to suggest the inclusion of a New optional feature, like a simple [ View ] or [ Review ] menu option or [ Shortcut ] Key combination like Ctrl + some key, allowing the [ Fast ] scrolling of Hole past expressions through the Screen ( bypassing the arkward character by character expression review approach now available on TI Nspire ).

For HP a suggestion for a future model release, would be a Prime "Plus", with a Larger Portrait Screen and few essential Keys ( like Casio CP-400 ), or a definitive real Tablet Like format, with at least a row of Special Keys, like Esc, Ctrl, Shift, 2nd Functions and Virtual Keyboard invocation.

From the slow pace of innovations on the Calculator arena, the unnanswered questions would be "when" to expect effective New releases, and "what" to expect from them ...
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: alexgt on January 30, 2016, 01:12:33 AM
Well, I do admit I didn't read all of it but I did read most of what you said :P. I was recently thinking about getting a Voyage, just for fun but then I suddenly went into debt <_<.
How long did it take to type that, just wondering :P
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: c4ooo on January 30, 2016, 01:19:08 AM
Hey guys, you do realize that PCs are 'calculators too"? :trollface:
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on January 30, 2016, 01:23:17 AM
I always wanted a V200 but back when there was still a community of 68K programmers, the v200 was like $200 on Ebay Canadian store >.<, so I passed on it. It had a lot of potential, though (the only problem was that it was very bulky)


As for future calcs, the question is if new calcs will be locked down even more like the TI-82 Advanced and if the successor to the TI-Nspire will replace the touchpad with a touchscreen. Or will the next calcs simply be smartphone apps?
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: SiphonicSugar on January 30, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
You know, I think that my dream calculator would be amazing.  As someone said before, it should have a processor that is clocked at 1 GHz, a good GPU, nothing to amazing, screen that is a little bit bigger than the TI-Nspire (at least length-wise), it would need a CAS, be able to program in a couple of different languages like C, Lua, Python, etc (also it would be cool if you could write a program in C and compile it to assembly), it would need to have not super clicky buttons but more like the buttons that are on the TI-Nspire CAS with Touchpad, and finally, it would need to have the option to have rechargeable batteries or put in regular batteries like the TI-84 Plus. One more thing too. It would to have like 1 or 2 USB ports and the ability to connect to flash drives and stuff. I forgot one more thing too. It would need to have like 8 GB of archive memory and 1 GB of RAM.

I would want this to be a Texas Instruments device...
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: novenary on January 30, 2016, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on January 30, 2016, 01:23:17 AM
I always wanted a V200 but back when there was still a community of 68K programmers, the v200 was like $200 on Ebay Canadian store >.<, so I passed on it. It had a lot of potential, though (the only problem was that it was very bulky)
Isn't the v200 smaller than the 92 though ? I think I'd rather stick to regular handhelds. If I was still into calcs I would love to get a TI-89, these are pretty damn awesome.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: alexgt on January 31, 2016, 05:03:01 AM
Quote from: SiphonicSugar on January 30, 2016, 03:10:16 PM
You know, I think that my dream calculator would be amazing.  As someone said before, it should have a processor that is clocked at 1 GHz, a good GPU, nothing to amazing, screen that is a little bit bigger than the TI-Nspire (at least length-wise), it would need a CAS, be able to program in a couple of different languages like C, Lua, Python, etc (also it would be cool if you could write a program in C and compile it to assembly), it would need to have not super clicky buttons but more like the buttons that are on the TI-Nspire CAS with Touchpad, and finally, it would need to have the option to have rechargeable batteries or put in regular batteries like the TI-84 Plus. One more thing too. It would to have like 1 or 2 USB ports and the ability to connect to flash drives and stuff. I forgot one more thing too. It would need to have like 8 GB of archive memory and 1 GB of RAM.

I would want this to be a Texas Instruments device...
"Super clicky buttons" HP Prime <_<
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: pimathbrainiac on January 31, 2016, 07:32:02 AM
My dream calculator is one that is fully and intentionally hackable.

Processor: ARM 64 bit, somewhere between 768 MHz and 1 GHz
RAM: 512 MB (Guys, it's a calculator, not a computer :P)
Flash Memory: 4-8 GB
I/O: 1 full-sized USB port, 10 (accessible) GPIO pins (2 being serial and the other 8 being PWM-capable), and 2 analogue input pins
OS: Something along the lines of the TI-8x series' OSs, but with some basic CAS (nothing beyond symbolic algebra) and 3D graphing. 3rd party OS support as well
Programming: C and Assembly, as well as a built-in python interpreter and a built-in (beginner) language. Computer SDK and on-calc program editor included, supported, and updated
Keypad: Something like the TI-8x series or TI-89 Ti, but with a keyboard driver for the USB port

So basically a hodge-podge of the Nspire, the RPi, the TI-89 Ti, and the TI-8x series :P
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on January 31, 2016, 05:14:01 PM
Quote from: Streetwalrus on January 30, 2016, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on January 30, 2016, 01:23:17 AM
I always wanted a V200 but back when there was still a community of 68K programmers, the v200 was like $200 on Ebay Canadian store >.<, so I passed on it. It had a lot of potential, though (the only problem was that it was very bulky)
Isn't the v200 smaller than the 92 though ? I think I'd rather stick to regular handhelds. If I was still into calcs I would love to get a TI-89, these are pretty damn awesome.
It's a little smaller but not by much, IIRC. But yeah I always prefered traditional graphing calcs like the 89 design.

Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: c4ooo on January 31, 2016, 10:19:28 PM
Duel core AMD64 CPU by Intel @2.20 Ghz
4GB Ram
~500GB hard drive


Woops i posted my laptop stats :trollface:
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on February 01, 2016, 02:01:14 AM
One worry I have is that if TI ever decides to release an high-end ez80-based calc with much more RAM, flash and speed, will they block ASM and use the excuse that TI-BASIC is now fast enough to rival ASM and Nspire Lua?
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: alexgt on February 01, 2016, 02:07:54 AM
Yeah, and we be like "does it rival ASM on that calc" :trollface:
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: SiphonicSugar on February 01, 2016, 02:57:11 AM
Quote from: pimathbrainiac on January 31, 2016, 07:32:02 AM
My dream calculator is one that is fully and intentionally hackable.

Processor: ARM 64 bit, somewhere between 768 MHz and 1 GHz
RAM: 512 MB (Guys, it's a calculator, not a computer :P)
Flash Memory: 4-8 GB
I/O: 1 full-sized USB port, 10 (accessible) GPIO pins (2 being serial and the other 8 being PWM-capable), and 2 analogue input pins
OS: Something along the lines of the TI-8x series' OSs, but with some basic CAS (nothing beyond symbolic algebra) and 3D graphing. 3rd party OS support as well
Programming: C and Assembly, as well as a built-in python interpreter and a built-in (beginner) language. Computer SDK and on-calc program editor included, supported, and updated
Keypad: Something like the TI-8x series or TI-89 Ti, but with a keyboard driver for the USB port

So basically a hodge-podge of the Nspire, the RPi, the TI-89 Ti, and the TI-8x series :P
Naw man, you gotta have Lua capabilities too!

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on February 01, 2016, 02:01:14 AM
One worry I have is that if TI ever decides to release an high-end ez80-based calc with much more RAM, flash and speed, will they block ASM and use the excuse that TI-BASIC is now fast enough to rival ASM and Nspire Lua?
Probably. I think that's there excuse with no ASM on the TI-82 Advanced and that new calculator that you can only get in like the Netherlands... a TI-84 PlusT or something with the normal TI-84 screen but it's backlit... :P
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dudeman313 on February 01, 2016, 04:09:44 PM
My dream calc, as of now, is a TI-84+ CE with a 1TB ROM and RAM that can run any program for other calculators, those made for it, and java programs. It would also have WiFi capabilities and a touchscreen like the HP Prime.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: alexgt on February 01, 2016, 04:33:49 PM
I guess I would flat out want my PC in my prime ^.^ with a higher res screen (And predictable color patterns <_<) then I could even control our FRC robot with my calc O.O.
Title: Your dream calculator
Post by: DarkestEx on February 29, 2016, 09:51:16 AM
Hey guys!

What would be your dream calculator that would still be affordable (Price under 40€)?

- What processor architecture (ARM, eZ80, AVR :P)
- How much RAM?
- How much storage (or SD card support)
- USB (host or/and slave)?
- What other interfaces to the outside (SPI, CAN, I2C, UART, Bluetooth, Infrared, WiFi, ...)?
- What processor speed?
- What display size, resolution and should it be grayscale, monochrome or color?
- What keys?
- What battery type (rechargeable, AAA, AA or coin cell)?
- Solar power support?
Title: Re: Your dream calculator
Post by: CVSoft on February 29, 2016, 10:14:22 AM
So, basically how to improve the TI-82 :)

Z80 processor with 32K RAM, user space maximized. Ferroelectric RAM for data, program, and OS storage. I/O provided by native RS232 with +/- 5V voltage levels, USB is for the weak. If you do include a USB port, it should only be for charging the battery or providing a virtual serial port to a connected PC (USB to serial converter within the device). Z80s can go into the 20 MHz range, so >= 20 MHz clock speed. Batteries should be two 18650 batteries to output 7.2 volts, which is regulated by the calculator to either 5V or whatever voltage is needed by the ICs (RS232 may need higher voltage). It must include an integrated charging controller, accepting 5V power from a standard power jack (such as microUSB). A backlit monochrome display of 160x120 pixels, we remember the last time we put a color screen on a Z80 (https://education.ti.com/en/us/products/calculators/graphing-calculators/ti-84-plus-c-silver-edition/tabs/overview). Grayscale if you know how to program efficiently, a slow calculator is an angry user. Double-shot injection molded keys would be dandy. Solar power would require gigantic panels to recharge 18650 cells, so heck no. Maybe a simple tone generator connected to a headphone jack. It cannot have an internal speaker, nor a touchscreen. The serial port should be able to operate at 57600 baud, and any OS running on this thing should include commands to send/receive raw data to/from the serial port.
Title: Re: Your dream calculator
Post by: DarkestEx on February 29, 2016, 11:08:05 AM
Quote from: CVSoft on February 29, 2016, 10:14:22 AM
So, basically how to improve the TI-82 :)

Z80 processor with 32K RAM, user space maximized. Ferroelectric RAM for data, program, and OS storage. I/O provided by native RS232 with +/- 5V voltage levels, USB is for the weak. If you do include a USB port, it should only be for charging the battery or providing a virtual serial port to a connected PC (USB to serial converter within the device). Z80s can go into the 20 MHz range, so >= 20 MHz clock speed. Batteries should be two 18650 batteries to output 7.2 volts, which is regulated by the calculator to either 5V or whatever voltage is needed by the ICs (RS232 may need higher voltage). It must include an integrated charging controller, accepting 5V power from a standard power jack (such as microUSB). A backlit monochrome display of 160x120 pixels, we remember the last time we put a color screen on a Z80 (https://education.ti.com/en/us/products/calculators/graphing-calculators/ti-84-plus-c-silver-edition/tabs/overview). Grayscale if you know how to program efficiently, a slow calculator is an angry user. Double-shot injection molded keys would be dandy. Solar power would require gigantic panels to recharge 18650 cells, so heck no. Maybe a simple tone generator connected to a headphone jack. It cannot have an internal speaker, nor a touchscreen. The serial port should be able to operate at 57600 baud, and any OS running on this thing should include commands to send/receive raw data to/from the serial port.
Interesting.

My dream calculator would be ARMv7ME based, 120 MHz, 64 KB RAM, 256 KB flash (including area from where native programs are executed from). It'd have nice reed keys and a graphical vacuum fluorescent display with 128*64 pixels.
The battery would be a lithium polymer. It would have USB mass storage and serial support to be able to copy stuff from and to it. It might have a I2C port on the side.

Plot twist, I have a similar setup currently at home. Basically the reminants of the last Microcat prototype. Though there is no VFD nor reed keys. But I do have a 128*64 negative LCD and a lot of pushbuttons. I was thinking about finally reusing these. Maybe one could do a calculator out of them. This is just an idea of what to do with these parts.
Title: Re: Your dream calculator
Post by: Araidia on February 29, 2016, 03:48:16 PM
There's already a topic (https://codewalr.us/index.php?topic=814.0) on this  ;D
Title: Re: Your dream calculator
Post by: DarkestEx on February 29, 2016, 04:27:35 PM
Quote from: Araidia on February 29, 2016, 03:48:16 PM
There's already a topic (https://codewalr.us/index.php?topic=814.0) on this  ;D
Nope there isn't. I started this one intentionally.
Title: Re: Your dream calculator
Post by: DarkestEx on March 01, 2016, 10:14:07 AM
Working on some atmega based RPN calculator currently, I might build some of them if they work.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on March 01, 2016, 06:34:13 PM
Personally I don't see any difference in this topic with the other, so I merged both, but if you obect, I can always split it back into a standalone topic.

The problem with TI calcs is that they're overpriced for their specs. Even the 150 MHz TI-Nspire CX with 100 MB of RAM/64 MB Flash is overpriced. On the other hand, it would be hard to make a community calculator as cheap as TI calcs should be, because production costs are much higher than when they produce calculators in bulk of thousands.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Lionel Debroux on March 01, 2016, 06:39:43 PM
TI graphing calcs are indeed way overpriced for end users, and so are HP and Casio graphing calcs...
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on March 01, 2016, 06:53:36 PM
On the other hand, the HP Prime has a 400 MHz processor and I still see phones with 2 GHz processors that cost over $800 here. If we factor in the battery costs, some other hardware like the touchscreen and production costs, then the HP Prime doesn't have as much left to be removed from the end user cost, at least not in USA. DarkestEx's goal should be to provide a calculator with a price/technical specs ratio that justifies getting it over any TI/Casio/HP alternatives. But entering the calculator market would be futile, especially if it was more open to third-party development than the other alternatives, because TI would still dominate the market and the market share that the calc would have behind HP would be negligible (or maybe non-existent if it lacks an exam mode)
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: DarkestEx on March 01, 2016, 06:53:42 PM
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on March 01, 2016, 06:34:13 PM
Personally I don't see any difference in this topic with the other, so I merged both, but if you obect, I can always split it back into a standalone topic.

The problem with TI calcs is that they're overpriced for their specs. Even the 150 MHz TI-Nspire CX with 100 MB of RAM/64 MB Flash is overpriced. On the other hand, it would be hard to make a community calculator as cheap as TI calcs should be, because production costs are much higher than when they produce calculators in bulk of thousands.
Well this was meant as some sort idea collection topic to see what we could do. I would like to have a community calc. And if we use the microcat's chipset i can reuse the bios, some of the drivers and mainly the hardware i have laying around.

It would be a 120MHz, 32 bit ARMv7ME, 64KB RAM, 256KB flash (native applications and basic)
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on March 02, 2016, 01:14:13 AM
I think the Flash is too low. 256 KB is even less than the TI-84+, so basically you can only fit 1 game on the calc if it uses advanced graphics and only a few math applications would fit. That's unless external storage is supported, though.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dudeman313 on March 02, 2016, 03:10:39 AM
I'd want at least 1 TB of Flash on anything, with or without expandable storage. :P
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Lionel Debroux on March 02, 2016, 07:17:58 AM
Both 64 KB of RAM and 256 KB of Flash are way too small, indeed.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Unicorn on March 02, 2016, 07:22:04 AM
Quote from: Dudeman313 on March 02, 2016, 03:10:39 AM
I'd want at least 1 TB of Flash on anything, with or without expandable storage. :P
One TB on a calc? I would say about 10 gb would be enough, depending on the programs you can make with it.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on March 02, 2016, 08:35:53 AM
Considering that a standard sized 1 TB hard drive is $50, I would go smaller. If 1 TB is this expensive, then imagine how expensive it would be as a smaller storage medium that fits inside a calc.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: DarkestEx on March 02, 2016, 01:46:12 PM
Well then it's not worth even trying to make some calculator. I would have only used parts from the microcat development. This was the second last chip we were testing. It's big brother would have been used in the microcat. The big brother has 128KB RAM and 512KB flash. Note that the flash is completely different to the one used in the TI calcs and is a lot more flexible. The big brother also has SD card support.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dudeman313 on March 02, 2016, 11:21:52 PM
The calculator of my fears would either be the TI-15 or the first one :blah: .
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on March 04, 2016, 08:02:58 AM
One thing to keep in mind with making a community calculator should be to ensure that it can compete against the TI-84 Plus CE and Casio fx-CG20 from an hardware standpoint. It can have a smaller color screen and Z80 CPU, but if the calc RAM and Flash is even lower than the old 83+ or the original TI-89, or if it has a monochrome screen, then people won't really be interested, even if the price is low. You could get away by using a monochrome screen maybe, but only if it's backlit properly, like the FX-9860GII.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: DarkestEx on March 04, 2016, 03:10:05 PM
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on March 04, 2016, 08:02:58 AM
One thing to keep in mind with making a community calculator should be to ensure that it can compete against the TI-84 Plus CE and Casio fx-CG20 from an hardware standpoint. It can have a smaller color screen and Z80 CPU, but if the calc RAM and Flash is even lower than the old 83+ or the original TI-89, or if it has a monochrome screen, then people won't really be interested, even if the price is low. You could get away by using a monochrome screen maybe, but only if it's backlit properly, like the FX-9860GII.
Color screen is ugly, expensive, slow and power consuming. It wouldn't be worth it.
Having a properly muxed grayscale screen would be way better.
Also z80 would certainly not be the platform of choice but arm for many, many reasons:
Cheap, fast, powerful, easy to get, low current, 32 bit, supports way more RAM without hacks (up to 4GB), USB, fast SPI (e.g. for screen or SD card)

For the community calc I can offer 120 MHz, 128 KB RAM, 16 MB flash from where native programs can run (without being loaded into RAM!)
Price estimation would be around 50€
The processor does support full speed USB 2.0 client + host and high speed SDIO over a HSMCI (SD cards).
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on March 04, 2016, 04:50:40 PM
For the color screen, I was mostly refering to download stats on ticalc. Super Mario 1.2 used to average at 2000 downloads a week, and now it rarely makes the top 25 anymore. Most top 25 files are either school or shell related or color. It's your choice, though. Would a backlit monochrome screen be more expensive?
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Lionel Debroux on March 04, 2016, 04:55:20 PM
I agree about the ISA of choice being ARM (Cortex-M4/-M7 for relatively high-powered yet power-efficient lower-end machines, Cortex-A5/-A32/-A35 for power-efficient higher-end machines), but I disagree about the backlit color screen. As DJ indicates, that ship has now sailed.
Title: Re: The dream of your calculators
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on March 04, 2016, 04:57:19 PM
I wonder if there is any page online that compares various type of LCDs for DYI pocket device projects?
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: GalacticPirate on March 04, 2016, 05:21:24 PM
Well, now just sit down and think a minute. If the Iphone 6S Plus or the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge were calculators (and only calcs), it would completely humiliate actual ones, and even at this price (~€700-1100), their value-for-money would be far better than TI's/Casio's/HP's one :P So, we are just in an impossible c with these outdated technologies :P
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: DarkestEx on March 04, 2016, 11:12:58 PM
Quote from: STV on March 04, 2016, 05:21:24 PM
Well, now just sit down and think a minute. If the Iphone 6S Plus or the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge were calculators (and only calcs), it would completely humiliate actual ones, and even at this price (~€700-1100), their value-for-money would be far better than TI's/Casio's/HP's one :P So, we are just in an impossible s*** with these outdated technologies :P
That is not the point of calculators. They don't need to be fancy after all. There is a lot of reasearch to them though TI seems to fail making good code and Casio's UI is such crap.

I don't see any benefit of a color screen in a calculator except graph plotting and some games, but it is not worth it. You will end up with having to charge it often and nobody wants to do that.
A monochrome screen would be a lot more reasonable.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: 123outerme on March 04, 2016, 11:16:39 PM
My dream calc would be a TI-84+CSE, but with a processor faster than the CE, more memory, less memory restraints with ASM, and an OS akin to Doors CSE, but with a menu option for calculations. So basically a gaming calculator O.O
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: Dream of Omnimaga on March 04, 2016, 11:18:40 PM
Yeah I agree that calcs don't need to be fancy. It's a calculator, after all.


The problem with current graphing calcs is not that they're underpowered. It's that they're way overpriced for their technical specs. Seriously, charging $90 for a 6 MHz 24 KB RAM 160 KB Flash computer-ish device is just ridiculous.


THe only worry I have with a monochrome screen @DarkestEx is that without a backlight it's hard to see the screen and we can't use it when it's dark. Hence my backlit screen suggestion. The backlight could be turned ON/OFF in options or with a button.
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: aetios on March 05, 2016, 08:57:03 AM
Quote from: 123outerme on March 04, 2016, 11:16:39 PM
My dream calc would be a TI-84+CSE, but with a processor faster than the CE, more memory, less memory restraints with ASM, and an OS akin to Doors CSE, but with a menu option for calculations. So basically a gaming calculator O.O
Did you just describe a very fancy gameboy with a calculation function?
Title: Re: The calculator of your dreams (or your fears)
Post by: DarkestEx on March 05, 2016, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on March 04, 2016, 11:18:40 PM
Yeah I agree that calcs don't need to be fancy. It's a calculator, after all.


The problem with current graphing calcs is not that they're underpowered. It's that they're way overpriced for their technical specs. Seriously, charging $90 for a 6 MHz 24 KB RAM 160 KB Flash computer-ish device is just ridiculous.


THe only worry I have with a monochrome screen @DarkestEx is that without a backlight it's hard to see the screen and we can't use it when it's dark. Hence my backlit screen suggestion. The backlight could be turned ON/OFF in options or with a button.
Sure backlight would be no problem.