X3D - A 3D engine for TI68k & Nspire Calculators

u/CKH4 July 03, 2015, 02:45:41 AM

Yes and no. The ti 89 titanium is the only one that's faster than the ti 84+ series but the rest are faster than the 83+ series.

u/Unicorn July 03, 2015, 02:48:49 AM

Quote from: CKH4 on July 03, 2015, 02:45:41 AM
Yes and no. The ti 89 titanium is the only one that's faster than the ti 84+ series but the rest are faster than the 83+ series.

hmmm, interesting... Isn't the 83+ SE the same speed as the 84+ though?

u/CKH4 July 03, 2015, 03:07:37 AM

For some reason I thought that the ti 83+ se only added mem. Apparently it's dual speed 6 and 15. I guess that's why I thought that it was only 6.

u/catastropher July 03, 2015, 03:15:10 AM

Even though some of the Z80 calcs have a faster clock speed, the 68k calcs have native multiplication and division instructions (though slow), 16 32-bit registers, and a number of other things that make a 12 MHz 68k outperform a 15MHz Z80 i.e. it's a just a more powerful processor.

u/Dream of Omnimaga July 03, 2015, 04:02:02 AM

Quote from: Unicorn on July 03, 2015, 02:41:12 AM
Quote from: alexgt on July 03, 2015, 01:33:58 AM
This looks amazing

Ya think?

Isn't the z80 series faster though? I'm suprissed that this can run on the 68k calcs

There is Nostromo that demonstrates how fast 3D can be on Z80 calcs, but I don't know if the maps are as complex as X3D. It seems to run at good speed, though: http://www.benryves.com/journal/tags/Nostromo/all

IIRC, this screenshot runs at 6 MHz (entirely possible considering who made that ASM program), but I could be wrong.

Also just because the TI-84+SE runs at 15 MHz and the TI-89/92+/v200 at 12 MHz doesn't mean it's necessarily faster. The Z80 is a 8 bits processor, while the 68K one is 32 bits.

Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 04:10:31 AM by DJ Omnimaga

u/Lionel Debroux July 03, 2015, 05:23:07 AM

Indeed, the TI-68k series has always been significantly more powerful than the TI-Z80 series, and the Nspire series significantly more powerful than the TI-68k series

The relative popularity of the TI-Z80 series and TI-68k series is a consequence of standardized testing acceptance at the first order, and price tag at the second order. And as we all know, lower performance does not mean that one can't do great things on a given platform by leveraging all of its power.

The recent TI-eZ80 series is closing the gap, with a 24-bit flat addressing space, 256 KB of RAM and 4 MB of Flash, just like the 89T, and a faster processor. However, the eZ80 remains a 8-bit CPU with few registers, and represents an older generation than the 68000. Both were designed in the 1970s, nearly 40 years ago by now. What's more, TI is shackling the eZ80 with all of those memory access wait states, effectively reducing the processor speed to a quarter or an eighth of the maximum speed - which weakens a lot the eZ80's ability to drive a 320x240 screen at an optimal filling rate.

For select USB transfers, e.g. sending screenshots or FlashApps to the computer, the TI-eZ80 series seems faster than the 89T, which could be explained pretty much only by the usage of a DMA.

Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 05:25:03 AM by Lionel Debroux

u/Snektron July 03, 2015, 03:51:18 PM

Someone should really make some hack for the CE at some point, unleashing it's full potential.
Though its probably quite hard, since you possibly need to kill the asic

u/CKH4 July 03, 2015, 03:57:07 PM

I'd be cautious about releasing it if you weren't completely sure that your methods couldn't be broken by ti. I'm sure that they'd rather release a broken OS upgrade that temporarily bricks some people's calcs then bother to properly patch the exploit.

u/alexgt July 03, 2015, 07:17:13 PM

Quote from: Cumred_Snektron on July 03, 2015, 03:51:18 PM
Someone should really make some hack for the CE at some point, unleashing it's full potential.
Though its probably quite hard, since you possibly need to kill the asic

And the Prime but it is powerful of and by itself.

u/catastropher July 06, 2015, 05:43:57 PM

I threw together a simple on-calc level editor because I needed a test level! The spinning line shows which face is currently selected. Note that the image is running much faster than the actual version.

[spoiler=X3D Level Editor]

[/spoiler]

Edit: I should point out that this project is open source and anyone can contribute! Here' the link to the source code: https://github.com/catastropher/X3D-68k

Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 09:02:44 PM by catastropher

u/alexgt July 07, 2015, 03:50:51 PM

Awesome

I wish that the real speed was as fast as that but that looks amazing

u/Unicorn July 08, 2015, 01:51:43 AM

And the proccesors have been explained

Thanks guys.

u/Dream of Omnimaga July 09, 2015, 02:18:29 AM

Quote from: Lionel Debroux on July 03, 2015, 05:23:07 AM
Indeed, the TI-68k series has always been significantly more powerful than the TI-Z80 series, and the Nspire series significantly more powerful than the TI-68k series
The relative popularity of the TI-Z80 series and TI-68k series is a consequence of standardized testing acceptance at the first order, and price tag at the second order. And as we all know, lower performance does not mean that one can't do great things on a given platform by leveraging all of its power.

I will never understand TI's marketing tactics for the 68K series. Why do they insist on charging as much for a 16 MHz calc with 188 KB of RAM and 2.7 MB of flash as they do for a 150+ MHz calc with 64 MB of RAM and 100 MB Flash? It's almost like if they tried to make 68K calcs sell as less as possible to justify their eventual discontinuation. In Canada, the TI-84+CE and HP Prime calcs are now $150 (the latter was $200 last Fall), while the Nspire CX CAS is $165. One store even has the 89T for $15 more than the Nspire CX CAS right now, which is a disgrace. The 89T should be $155 at most.

Quote from: catastropher on July 06, 2015, 05:43:57 PM
I threw together a simple on-calc level editor because I needed a test level! The spinning line shows which face is currently selected. Note that the image is running much faster than the actual version.

[spoiler=X3D Level Editor]

[/spoiler]

Edit: I should point out that this project is open source and anyone can contribute! Here' the link to the source code: https://github.com/catastropher/X3D-68k

Woah, that is nice Catastropher!

I am curious if I might be able to do some levels easily in it. A FPS with custom maps would be great.

u/catastropher July 11, 2015, 09:32:34 PM

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on July 09, 2015, 02:18:29 AM
I will never understand TI's marketing tactics for the 68K series. Why do they insist on charging as much for a 16 MHz calc with 188 KB of RAM and 2.7 MB of flash as they do for a 150+ MHz calc with 64 MB of RAM and 100 MB Flash? It's almost like if they tried to make 68K calcs sell as less as possible to justify their eventual discontinuation. In Canada, the TI-84+CE and HP Prime calcs are now $150 (the latter was $200 last Fall), while the Nspire CX CAS is $165. One store even has the 89T for $15 more than the Nspire CX CAS right now, which is a disgrace. The 89T should be $155 at most.

What's interesting is that I bought a practically brand new TI92+ for $35 a few months ago

Unfortunately, TI doesn't care too much about the 68k calcs anymore. Still, they're a pretty neat platform, hence why I'm making this. DJ, don't you have a regular TI92? I wonder if I could get X3D to work with that too.

Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on July 09, 2015, 02:18:29 AM
Woah, that is nice Catastropher! I am curious if I might be able to do some levels easily in it. A FPS with custom maps would be great.

Thanks!

My hope is to have both an on-calc editor and a PC editor. In addition, there will eventually be a simple scripting language! I just need to brush up on my 68k assembly skills to get everything fast enough